Sold my Model S after 5.5 years...moving on

[David_Cary]

WhiteX - your logic on why you hang around forums makes some sense. But 5500 posts does not and this page alone shows they are not typically one-liners. I feel pretty up to date on things and have something less than 1,000 over a longer time period.

I never said Telsa is infallible and they certainly didn't "invent" EVs. Take them to task on whatever problem you might have. I do think when it comes to supercharging, they get a bit of a pass.

Isn't selling your cars an option?

 

[CaryRx]

I've loved my S85, but when Tesla with no explanation or notice capped my supercharging speed to less than half the former speed with a software update almost a year ago as has been done to most if not all older cars. that was it for me. My car is now a city car. Long trips are not practical when it takes 90+ minutes to supercharge. My car only had 40k miles on it when this was done.
.

I bought a used S85 last year and didn’t know about the chargegate stuff... I mostly charge my car at home so the slowdown in supercharge rates ticks me off on road trips, but otherwise I love this car and never want to go back to an ICE vehicle.

That being said, I’m looking at going to a MY later this year... I might go with an M3, depends in my mood at the time. I can only imagine that it’s not economically beneficial to their bottom line to redesign the MS/MX lines to accommodate battery packs using the new batteries used in the 3 & Y, AMS maybe they just want to leave the S/X behind? I wonder if the M3/MY battery packs are gonna turn up some stinker defect like the MS/MX packs??

 

[glide]

Imagine the +95% of Tesla owners will never see this reduction in Supercharging rates.

Those charging at home will never see it.
Those only charging on longer trips will never see it.
Those occasionally supercharging will never see it.
Those who always supercharge, but don't put on lots of miles may never see it.
Those with earlier batteries will see it sooner than those with later editions.

Only those that most always Supercharge and travel long distances may see it.

On the other hand, those that do see Supercharging rates slowed will hate it.

People buying Tesla with intentions to exclusively Supercharge, and demand full charging speeds for the life of the car may be disappointed, and should consider alternative choices..

Your assumption is 100% false

 

[glide]

WhiteX - your logic on why you hang around forums makes some sense. But 5500 posts does not and this page alone shows they are not typically one-liners. I feel pretty up to date on things and have something less than 1,000 over a longer time period.

I never said Telsa is infallible and they certainly didn't "invent" EVs. Take them to task on whatever problem you might have. I do think when it comes to supercharging, they get a bit of a pass.

Isn't selling your cars an option?

WhiteX - your logic on why you hang around forums makes some sense. But 5500 posts does not and this page alone shows they are not typically one-liners. I feel pretty up to date on things and have something less than 1,000 over a longer time period.

I never said Telsa is infallible and they certainly didn't "invent" EVs. Take them to task on whatever problem you might have. I do think when it comes to supercharging, they get a bit of a pass.

Isn't selling your cars an option?

Is it ethical to sell a vehicle you know has been crippled because it is potentially dangerous?
How do you suppose that impacts the value of the car?

 

[JRP3]

Those who always supercharge, but don't put on lots of miles may never see it.

If charging rate is limited by the number of supercharge sessions a relatively low mileage vehicle which is only supercharged might see it.

 

[ACA Man]

Your assumption is 100% false

Exactly.

 

[OrbiterTI4]

...
Those only charging on longer trips will never see it.
Those occasionally supercharging will never see it.
...

I forget the thread were I commented with the exact details of my experience, but in Dec/Jan I pulled in with 10-15%ish charge remaining for my first SC since Apr2018 (roadtrip with 2 SC stops each way), which itself was the first SC since 2016. Initial charging ran up to 120 kW, then immediately dropped to 80ish kW and started a linear decline in rate. I only charged for 15 min so I did not wait to see what my rate would have been at a SoC of 75%+.

I believe my conditions meet your proposed criteria (low state of charge at arrival to SC = longer trips; 20+ months since a SC = occasionally) and I DID see it, so I have to disagree with your statement's use of "never".

 

[Uncle Paul]

These tech things also apply to lots of new technology put out by ICE manufacturers.
I remember Cadillac coming out with 4-6-8 cyl deactivation system. Designed to combine the power of a V8 with the fuel economy of a 4 cyl. Never worked very well and maintaince costs were far higher than fuel savings.
Cadillac also converted their gas V8 to run on diesel...another disaster.
Early Turbo cars had cronic trouble with coking of the lines. The heat from the exhaust driven turbo would overheat the cooling oil when shut down. Next time starting the turbo would fail. Replaced tons of those, but owners after warranty got stuck with the costs.
Supercharger equipped cars also experienced significant power losses as internal heat from compression reduced effective boost. When taking it to the track they would often go into limp home mode after just a couple laps.
Early air conditioning would often ice up and you needed to turn it off for a while to let the ice melt.
Early vacuum windshield wipers would stop working when you pressed on the gas. Slowed or stopped when you needed them the most.
Carburated cars would often stall when leaving from a stop it you fed it too much throttle.
Cars would backfire from the carb or exhaust if the choke was set a little high.
Bias belt tires would overheat and blow out if run with too little air pressure at speed.
Power steering and brakes would fail if the fluid got too low.
Safety glass windows would delaminate if exposed to too much Sun or freezing temps.
Diesels emit dangerous particulates that caused great illness. Now such vehicles are mandated to install particulate traps and run expensive blue additives to mitigate the pollution they spew.


The list of imperfect automotive new technologies is perhaps endless.

For some reason I believe that Elon went with the best battery technology he could find at the time. As time goes on the shortcomings will become more apparent, and of course improvements will be made.

We are big boys (and girls). Buying into new technolgy is a risk, but so is continuing to buy gassers that we know are even more dangerous to urban dwellers.

Please excuse me if I tend to give Elon the benefit of the doubt, and don't go ballistic when his products show some flaws over time. A part of me still is proud that an American designed and produced car can still be the envy of the World. That even with some flaws and a slowing of Supercharging speeds over time it can still delight and provide thousands of miles of pleasure. Totally understand that some are upset that they take longer to charge as they age. Perhaps that will continue to be an issue going forward as well.

I understand that battery chemistry is undergoing constant advancement and that charging systems are being improved and speeded up as well. Still imagine that in the future battery packs will continue to age as they cycle more.

 

[Big Toys]

We are big boys (and girls). Buying into new technolgy is a risk,

I think people are not complaining about new technology, but old skool customer service and relations.

 

[cpa]

I wonder if the M3/MY battery packs are gonna turn up some stinker defect like the MS/MX packs??

That is the million dollar question on many of our minds. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

The truth is we do not know what Tesla knew in 2012, and we do not know what Tesla knows today.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Don't believe Tesla knew much, if anything about the inner workings of little Li-Ion batteries in 2012. Just saw what was available on the marketplace and calculated how many of them would be needed to power the car. Total out of the box thinking, but born of computer geeks being exposed to them as backup stores of energy inside desktops to store data and time, if they were unplugged for a short period of time.

Now Elon claims they have deep deep knowledge of battery workings and chemistry. Say they gone deep into what can be done and areas of improvement.

Most of their cars seem to be getting much more out of the battery pack than originally projected by detractors.

 

[JRP3]

Don't believe Tesla knew much, if anything about the inner workings of little Li-Ion batteries in 2012.

Tesla had been working with little Li-ion batteries since 2003 and their supplier Panasonic had been doing so for much longer. They both knew quite a lot about batteries by then. Even with the issues they've had Tesla has gotten more miles out of packs than many people ever thought was possible.

 

[CeSinge]

These tech things also apply to lots of new technology put out by ICE manufacturers.
I remember Cadillac coming out with 4-6-8 cyl deactivation system. Designed to combine the power of a V8 with the fuel economy of a 4 cyl. Never worked very well and maintaince costs were far higher than fuel savings.
Cadillac also converted their gas V8 to run on diesel...another disaster.
Early Turbo cars had cronic trouble with coking of the lines. The heat from the exhaust driven turbo would overheat the cooling oil when shut down. Next time starting the turbo would fail. Replaced tons of those, but owners after warranty got stuck with the costs.
Supercharger equipped cars also experienced significant power losses as internal heat from compression reduced effective boost. When taking it to the track they would often go into limp home mode after just a couple laps.
Early air conditioning would often ice up and you needed to turn it off for a while to let the ice melt.
Early vacuum windshield wipers would stop working when you pressed on the gas. Slowed or stopped when you needed them the most.
Carburated cars would often stall when leaving from a stop it you fed it too much throttle.
Cars would backfire from the carb or exhaust if the choke was set a little high.
Bias belt tires would overheat and blow out if run with too little air pressure at speed.
Power steering and brakes would fail if the fluid got too low.
Safety glass windows would delaminate if exposed to too much Sun or freezing temps.
Diesels emit dangerous particulates that caused great illness. Now such vehicles are mandated to install particulate traps and run expensive blue additives to mitigate the pollution they spew.

This issue is not about failures - these happen and always will happen. And sometime the customer is lucky because there still is warranty, and other times not.
This is about a vendor willingly, behind the back of customers and without any notification nor explanation, reducing the capability of their vehicles.
There may be good reasons for what they do, but the problem is the sneeky and dishonest way they solve it.
I accept failures. I don't accept things done behind my back.

 

[David_Cary]

I don't think too many people are ok with the sneaky and dishonest aspect of Tesla's response.
Someone somewhere calculated that this approach would be better. Sort of like politician's approach to deny deny deny even though no one rational believes them.
There are 2 issues here and they are different. There is a safety issue and a warranty issue. I personally haven't seen reports of fires from older S's - there were a couple of international incidents but they were on newer cars I thought. But obviously Tesla knows a lot more about this than I do.
The warranty issue seems like less of an issue. I don't have a capacity warranty. I haven't supercharged enough likely to be a problem. But I am most likely throttled. It doesn't seem worth the warranty issue is worth the PR hit in my case.
Now maybe, Tesla is just worried about my longevity. That is really nice of them but that should be my choice.

I am willing to concede that there maybe reasons for Tesla's secrecy from a legal standpoint. I think that is where the big difference maybe in different poster's attitiudes. I don't own stock (currently). I have been tempted to short it even though I have never shorted a stock before. Many owners have or do own stock. This reality can't be ignored with everything Tesla.

 

[geoffmanley]

The fact is that Tesla never guaranteed any supercharging speeds. They chose to slow down the charging speeds to protect the batteries and make them last longer. I'm good with it, it still charges magnitudes faster than my home charger. Hopefully they will have some of these limitations worked out for my Cybertruck. MCU3, HW4, new battery chemistry.

 

[richrootes]

The fact is that Tesla never guaranteed any supercharging speeds. They chose to slow down the charging speeds to protect the batteries and make them last longer. I'm good with it, it still charges magnitudes faster than my home charger. Hopefully they will have some of these limitations worked out for my Cybertruck. MCU3, HW4, new battery chemistry.

You’re correct, but the charge curves that were used to show how fast the car could charge at a supercharger did not have these caveats attached. How quickly you could continue a journey was a major selling point for me in 2014

As I’ve said before, I’d be fine with the light that burns twice as bright lasts half as long principle - if it were possible to purchase a replacement pack at reasonable cost somewhere down the line

 

[geoffmanley]

You’re correct, but the charge curves that were used to show how fast the car could charge at a supercharger did not have these caveats attached. How quickly you could continue a journey was a major selling point for me in 2014

As I’ve said before, I’d be fine with the light that burns twice as bright lasts half as long principle - if it were possible to purchase a replacement pack at reasonable cost somewhere down the line

I get it, it was sweet when I used to see speeds of 375 miles/hr, gone are those days. But in general, I'm good with it. I'm sure Tesla will eventually offer relatively inexpensive battery upgrades. Someone posted a while back that they paid $11k for a replacement 60kw pack through Tesla that came with a 4 year warranty.

 

[glide]

The fact is that Tesla never guaranteed any supercharging speeds. They chose to slow down the charging speeds to protect the batteries and make them last longer. I'm good with it, it still charges magnitudes faster than my home charger. Hopefully they will have some of these limitations worked out for my Cybertruck. MCU3, HW4, new battery chemistry.

So you’re saying Elon did not tout the supercharger network and charging speeds for 0-half full in order to sell these very same cars? Because I remember that.

What I don’t remember him saying was that it was only feasible for a few years and not for the life of the vehicle.

 

[geoffmanley]

So you’re saying Elon did not tout the supercharger network and charging speeds for 0-half full in order to sell these very same cars? Because I remember that.

What I don’t remember him saying was that it was only feasible for a few years and not for the life of the vehicle.

I think it was common knowledge that batteries degrade over time.

 

[glide]

I think it was common knowledge that batteries degrade over time.

This is not a battery degradation issue.

Thanks for playing.