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Solicitation for Opinions on Tesla Service and Recent Pricing Changes

Discussion in 'Model 3: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by MrBoylan, Mar 5, 2019.

  1. MrBoylan

    MrBoylan Member

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    Hey, folks,

    I'm a long time member and occasional contributor to the forums, I also write for CleanTechnica about Tesla and other clean power issues. Here's a link to some of my work on CleanTechnica:

    Chris Boylan, Author at CleanTechnica

    At the moment, I'm working on a couple of articles: One about the current state of Tesla Service, and another about the impact of the recent pricing changes on people's opinions of the company.

    So if you've got an experience with Tesla service - negative or positive - please post it here. As far as "Service" is concerned, this would involve any direct personal experience with Tesla service, mobile service, on-site service and/or parts availability and its impact on service turn-around. If you've been a customer for a year or more and have noticed any change, this is worth noting.

    As for the pricing changes, if you are an existing Tesla customer (preferably a Model 3 customer) who purchased a Tesla before the recent price reductions, what is your opinion on the situation? This may include the Model 3 $5K PUP option package that was rolled into the base price of the Model 3 performance last fall (and how Tesla handled that) or it may involve the more recent price reduction in the Model 3 across the board with the introduction of the $35K base model.

    Also of particular interest is those who pre-paid for the FSD option (Full Self Driving). Those who bought a Model 3 prior to the recent price reduction paid $3K up front for AutoPilot and $5K up front for Full Self Driving. As most know, "Full Self Driving" is more of a "promise" then an actual feature, as it doesn't exist yet. Now, in the wake of the price reductions, Tesla is offering existing customers who did not purchase EAP in advance to get that feature for $2,000 and to sign up for the Full Self-Driving feature for $3,000. So those who paid $8,000 up front for this same feature set might be a bit perturbed about that. Or you may just consider it the "price of being an early adopter."

    If you'd prefer to message me directly, please feel free. I will need your full name and city/state of any contributors for transparency purposes. I can't promise to include everyone's opinions, but I do intend to include a fair sampling of opinions on both sides in the piece.

    Thanks,

    -Chris
     
  2. electricar

    electricar Member

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    The recent price cuts without a significant change in the vehicle or content were a mistake. Why buy now when the price will be lower tomorrow ( or the day after or next week ) ? The prices being in a constant state of flux doesn't give anyone confidence in Tesla. Customers are angry so much so that protests are erupting in Asia which could cause very serious damage to the brand. Suppliers are concerned that receivables from Tesla will be an even slower pay or they will start the routine about wanting discounts for product already delivered again. Wall Street and large institutional investors sense desperation and when they smell blood in the water it isn't good. The rest of the industry learned this long ago but Tesla has to learn each lesson the hard way.
     
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  3. Tam

    Tam Well-Known Member

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    #3 Tam, Mar 5, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
    Buying technology today hoping to mark it up for profit just like jewelry or a rare piece of art is not a good assumption.

    With technology, if consumers can wait long enough, the price will drop.

    At each event, Tesla has always thanked those who bought up Tesla products so that it could bring more affordable products for later consumers.

    In Tesla, the one who can afford it today is the one who will enable tomorrow's more affordable products for the next consumers.

    I think price reduction is a good sign of progress and it's a good thing for everyone.

    Let's spread the love around!
     
    • Like x 3
  4. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Well-Known Member

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    Tesla's core product will be the Model 3 SR. They're trying to cut costs everywhere to make that profitable.
    All fat will be trimmed, and maybe they'll catch some flesh.
     
    • Like x 1
  5. MrBoylan

    MrBoylan Member

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    Your "mark up for profit" comment makes no sense in this context. No one who bought a Model 3 expects to be able to sell it for more than they paid for it. No one who has any common sense, anyway. Re-selling for profit is not the issue.

    The rest of your argument would make some sense if it were solely about the cost of an existing product that one can enjoy today. I'm personally very excited that the $35K base model 3 is finally coming to market. Does that devalue my Model 3 Performance? Of course not. Bring more people to the Tesla family and get rid of a few thousand more ICE cars. It's all good.

    What I, and I think some others, are not too thrilled about is that a non-existent feature - "Full Self-Driving" - cost me $5,000 to buy at the time of purchase, with the understanding that this feature would cost $7,000 to add later. I paid for it up front knowing that Tesla would use the money to help develop full self driving and bring that feature to market. But Tesla announced that any current owner can now pre-pay for Full Self Driving, not at the $7,000 "after sale" price, not even at the $5,000 "early backer" price, but at the "oops, sorry we screwed up" price of $3,000. So instead of my early purchase ensuring a $2,000 discount, it actually got me (and anyone else who bought FSD) a $2,000 *penalty.*

    I like to use the indiegogo or Kickstarter analogy. Get into the project as an early backer and you get the best price on the product being developed. The company uses the funds to finish development and production of the product and early backers get the product first and at the lowest cost. Backers who join the campaign later get some discount. People who buy the item once it is in production pay the regular price. This was the model that Tesla was following, until they decided they weren't.
     
    • Like x 2
  6. Glamisduner

    Glamisduner Active Member

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    Best to let the dust settle, since I think more changes or clarifications will be coming. People opinions can flip flop quickly in regards to the final outcome.
     
    • Like x 1
  7. MrBoylan

    MrBoylan Member

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    I'm sure the pricing kerfuffle is still in flux; but these changes seem to indicate a pattern, rather than an anomaly.

    The service issues will also certainly change over time. But for the better or for the worse, it remains to be seen

    Tesla is experiencing growing pains. When you can't handle the service and parts backlog at a manufacturing and sales rate of 1X, things aren't going to get better when you ramp up sales and manufacturing to 3X or 5X unless the company ramps its parts and service capabilities at the same rate.
     
  8. Rex Kramer

    Rex Kramer Member

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    Prepaid FSD should be first in line to receive HW3 upgrades, in my opinion. Maybe this rolls into the early access program somehow.
     
    • Like x 1
  9. JPWhite

    JPWhite Member

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    I've had one experience with service and it was very positive. I scheduled using the phone app, was contacted in advance with feedback on my questions/issues. On the day of service I was given a loaner from Enterprise who brought the car to the service center where I left it when I picked my car up later that day. Status came via text and kept me informed regarding progress and work completion.

    With regard to price changes I have taken advantage of the lower Autopilot price and ordered online. Despite having been charged for the new feature it is not activated in my vehicle. Calls to Tesla and a visit to the service center have not been successful in getting it activated. Looks like I have a wait with little information much like the original car purchase.
     
  10. Tam

    Tam Well-Known Member

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    I thought Tesla has made it clear with its Master Plan.

    It's modeled after Robin Hood: Rob the rich and give that to the poor.

    Tesla has been doing it so skillfully so those who paid dearly for Roadster didn't know they were robbed blind.

    And once they realized it, they didn't mind for the sake of the next generation.

    I feel sad for those who have no clue what the Master Plan is and now yelling Tesla is robbing me blind!
     
  11. turtlesz

    turtlesz Member

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    I got 5 referrals and had been a pretty big Tesla supporter and all but bit peeved by the recent changes and my service experiences. I own a Model 3 and X and love them but have had significant service issues with both cars, particularly my 3 had multiple drive unit failures. Communication sucked and I gave them the benefit of the doubt for being new to mass producing cars. But the sleezy sales tactics is what really upset me after these multiple drops. Got my dad to consider a Tesla as they loved our 3. Tesla reps were pushy and kept getting emails direct from Tesla to buy now or miss out on tax credit and pay more. He had no need for a car for 6 months more when his i3 lease was up at that time but was convinced to buy now or pay $7500 more in the future. Fast forward to these multiple drops and we ended up paying much more for a car that was not needed because of Teslas sales tactics.

    After these latest drops and unfair EAP/FSD pricing for various buyers I don't think I am as excited about the company as before. Im sure others feel this way and Tesla may have to start advertising if they are disappointing their previous buyers. I truly now believe demand for the car is just not there, there is simply no other viable alternative explanation to me. They are closing stores, laying off reps, and dropped prices on all the cars across the board. All these changes in 1 announcement is not positive way to introduce a more affordable 35k model. If things were positive they would have kept the same premium pricing model on the higher trim models and simply introduce the $35k model with the smaller range battery and no PUP. Everything else fit perfectly to keep their profit margins healthy (9K LR battery upgrade, 5K PUP) but it seems a larger demand problem and Tesla overreaching too far at the expense of their brand loyalty.
     
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  12. David_Cary

    David_Cary Member

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    I have an S - no big issues with service. Had to wait a week for non urgent stuff to get a loaner.
    My 2 most recent issues (2018) were a 12V battery failure. They did it mobile at my place of work within 2 days. I lost my second key. I came over same day and they got me a new one while I test drove the Model 3. Was ready when I was done with the drive. They are separate but 1/8 mile apart.
    I paid $2500 for AP and there was no (and will never be) a FSD option because I have AP1. I thought that was a good value.
    I ordered a 3 this weekend. No AP, No FSD. The car is really for my wife and she will not use it. I don't actually use mine all that much now - mostly because of all the nags. I thought $5k was way overpriced. Maybe because I paid $2500. But given its beta status and various imperfections (slow to start compared to how I would start and failure to anticipate slow downs leading to wasteful braking issues), It just isn't worth $5k. Obviously I don't live in CA. My experience with stop and go is only in 5 min increments.
    The FSD portion has been worth zero until very recently. It was a donation line. That is how I always have felt about it. But people like to dream and/or don't research things.
    So, IMO, they dropped the AP and FSD pricing down to reality.
    They dropped the price of the car to compensate for the TC declining. They also wanted $35k and then have upgrades that are well priced. When we were looking, each price point was compelling. $35k was compelling. $2k more seemed like a no brainer, then $3k more for all the premium and a little more range - done. Well at that point, the LR is only $3k more - the best range and fastest supercharging EV ever made. Done.

    People should reflect back at to the 60 to 75 battery upgrade price. When you consider that, you would never upgrade (software) anything until the price is slashed. The 60 came out and it was like $8k less than the 75. This was compelling value and got a lot of people to bite - including a colleague. The original upgrade price was $9k. Tesla dropped it to $2k and probably every single person upgraded. Think of the suckers who paid $9k (or $8k at original purchase). How about me who had a 70 and my work colleague just snuck in and beat me on range for much lower price point. I didn't give it a thought.....

    Tesla lowers pricing on 60 to 75 kWh battery upgrade to $2000 ahead of 100D, P100D price increase on April 24
     
    • Like x 2
  13. justaute

    justaute Member

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    Careful now, MrBoylan. People who disagree with your observation might call you out as a "whiner". Many of them think this is a binary argument, with no views of gradation. haha
     
    • Like x 1
  14. MrBoylan

    MrBoylan Member

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    I am already steeling myself for the hate mail. :) But if you go back and read a few hundred of my posts, you will see where my stance on Tesla lies.
     
  15. voip-ninja

    voip-ninja Give me some sugar baby

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    I took delivery of my dual motor Model 3 in September of last year. I've had a variety of service interactions as the car has several defects and overall I would say that the service that Tesla offers is below industry standards, especially if you compare Tesla service to that of premium marquees like BMW. It's hard to say after recent re-pricing and closing of retail stores if Tesla is still aspiring to be a luxury brand.

    At delivery I had the following problems;

    1. Noise when turning steering wheel.... Tesla had car for six days and reported there was a loose foreign object in side the car's ducting from when it was built.
    2. Turn signal indicators not working correctly.... ranger service resolved this although the replacement part still has an intermittent issue.
    3. Magnet fell out of charging port door. Charge port has always responded to touch intermittently even after I glued the magnet back in.
    4. A variety of cabin noises, rattle sounds that don't mesh with what I expect from a $62,000 car. The car also has very loud wind noise on the highway compared to any of my other cars, even a $7,000 used Honda Fit I bought last year.
    5. Intermittently the car will refuse to connect to the LTE/4G network and just has no network connectivity.
    6. Wiper AI logic is terrible in snow showers, I have to turn the wipers on manually. I don't find there are enough speed variations compared to cars with old school intermittent wipers that have a dial adjustment.
    7. There is some fabric pulling away from the front splash shield. I crawled under the car and trimmed some of it away with a box cutter because it looked pretty stupid. I haven't run over anything so I assume this is 'wear and tear' from normal driving on Colorado roads. Pretty disappointing considering I've had the car for five months and have only put 4,000 miles on it.
    8. Car has had a variety of strange issues pop up on the screen. The most common one is, when it is put in drive, the car reports "autosteer unavailable" and beeps at me. It does this typically several times a week. Other times it has reported a variety of errors/alarms asking me to contact service because various systems aren't working. Fortunately these problems don't occur often and always seem to clear after I either reboot the car or leave it alone for a while.

    Now, all of this stuff I could live with if I felt that service was competent enough to get them addressed... but I don't. My service interactions have been painful. I have had staff at the Tesla call center outright lie to me or simply make stuff up about problems I've reported or scheduled my car for service on.

    I'm an engineer so I can smell bullshit about a mile away.

    I'm bringing my car in again on Thursday of this week in a hail mary attempt to get as many items resolved as I can. I have created video recording of some of the noise issues. I plan to carefully record the condition of my car because I am nervous that service will scratch trim pieces or damage the car in some way while trying to address my problems.

    I bought this car because it is fun to drive and arguably the most fun four door sedan to drive that has ever existed at this price range. I'm willing to put up with some of Tesla's growing pains because of this, but they are testing my patience.

    One way they are testing my patience is continued devaluation of my purchase. If I purchased my car today it would be $4,000 cheaper than when I purchased it and that is accounting for changes in tax credits. Sales tax, car insurance, registration all would be hundreds of dollars less based on the new pricing.

    The slashing of MSRP on the car means that my resale value is worth less (a LOT) less than I was expecting. I kind of feel like I'm stuck with this car now since my resale has tanked by at least $3,000-$4,000 from what I anticipated due to Tesla slashing prices. The price cuts don't come across as a bold move to deliver more electric transportation to the masses, they come across as desperation and soft demand. Ditto with closing stores when just a month or two ago Tesla said they wanted to expand their retail presence. Something smells rotten in Denmark.

    The final kick in the junk was paying $5,000 for EAP that I've only used a handful of times and finding out that if I had foregone the purchase Tesla would now furnish me with FSD for the same price....

    I don't think Tesla understands the value of brand loyalty but they can get away with it right now since they don't have any meaningful competition.
     
    • Like x 4
  16. voip-ninja

    voip-ninja Give me some sugar baby

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    And yes @MrBoylan you can expect some complete hate mail if you document any negative things about Tesla at all. The last time I encountered as many cultists as I've encountered in Tesla-land was during the HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray format wars.
     
    • Like x 3
  17. tomas

    tomas Only partially psycho

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    My service experiences have been universally excellent since 2012. Including 2 proactive calls where they noticed something in the logs.

    Regarding price actions, I thought they handled the 3P issue generously. I purchased one before price drop, and was beneficiary of rebate. I had advocated for a credit on future purchases vs. cash rebate. I believe that’s a model they could use to foster loyalty and repeat purchases.

    Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss further.
     
  18. MrBoylan

    MrBoylan Member

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    Well HD-DVD *was* the better format. Just as beta was superior to VHS, in all ways but one (recording time). :)
     
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  19. Lifeinabox

    Lifeinabox Member

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    Had a flat last week. Called Tesla roadside and they said they needed to confirm if mobile service in the area had replacement 20" tires (P3D). Got a call back within 5 minutes saying that they did not but offered to tow my car in to the local service center. This was approximately noon. Picked up my car by 5 with the tire replaced. Haven't always had good experience but this was my most recent and a positive sign.
     
  20. Knightshade

    Knightshade Well-Known Member

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    So I don't have a ton to say about service because my car hasn't had any issues post delivery.

    Pre-delivery there was a ton of gross incompetence, but it was all on the sales/delivery side and I think that's SUPER well documented by now for thousands of people.


    AT delivery the only problems were:
    Only 1 key card
    No phone cables (and they had no extra to give me)
    The Monroney sticker wasn't attached (this is actually a federal crime)
    The state inspection hadn't been done (this is a state crime)

    Items 1 and 2 were fixed via a ranger coming to my workplace and providing the missing items, he was prompt, professional, and no issues at all.

    Item 3 wasn't really a problem, just literally illegal.

    item 4 was a problem in that I didn't get my perm plate timely as a result, and then had to make an extra trip to a 3rd party inspection station (since the actual service center isn't licensed to do inspections)- then Tesla had to eat FedEx overnight to get me valid plates in time. So that wasn't a huge deal but it sure was a stupid one- plus again literally illegal.




    Now- on the price drops....

    I've had no issue at all on the drops for already delivered hardware. Happens all the time with other tech, so no shock there.


    The FSD thing though- that is just a flat out screw job on everyone who previously pre-ordered it (and make no mistake, that's literally what FSD has been up to this point, a pre-order).

    Name me any other time that any other company has lowered the price of a PREORDER of something they still haven't delivered and not allowed previous orders to get the lower price (or at least cancel the original order and re-order at lower price).




    this is another example of an unforced error from Tesla too...their original announcement of the change was fine and was this:


    EAP is gone for new customers. Existing ones keep it. 3k to add FSD (same as the preorders already paid)

    AP has less features and costs 3k if you never bought anything. Adding FSD (which has the removed from AP stuff, plus new stuff coming later) is 5k. Same total cost as the preorders paid here too, but you can get the low-hanging fruit for the lower price.


    That was fine. Nobody coming to the table later would've paid less than the pre-order folks did, but the FSD holdouts with EAP get to avail themselves of pre-purchase prices again. Pretty fair and reasonable.


    But then they announced EAP folks could upgrade for only 2k... less than the FSD preorder folks paid pre-purchase induced by the lie it'd be more later otherwise.... and even worse- that existing buyers who bought neither feature get BOTH for 5k now.

    Meaning FSD pre-orders spent $3000 for literally nothing


    Oh- except a rumored invite (which I sure haven't seen yet) to a program where you can test alpha-version self driving features more likely to wreck your car, and only then if you sign an NDA and also do work for Tesla by sending feedback.
     
    • Like x 2
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