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Solicitation for Opinions on Tesla Service and Recent Pricing Changes
- Thread starter MrBoylan
- Start date
People who complain about price drops are not familiar with Tesla mission. Tesla was always clear on it - mass market (cheap) car to speed up EV adoption. There's no way you could expect the initial high M3 prices to hold.
When I put my order in @59k (AWD+EAP), I knew that the price would go down. Being an early adopter of the technology has both pros and cons. You might experience extra issues & higher prices, but you get to use the new shiny object earlier.
In my view, FED + State tax incentives is actually what is mostly paying for the R&D and early adoption. That is what made the car more affordable to me and I fully expected that once the incentives are gone, the technology must have improved enough to subtract those incentives from the price.
My car now costs $51,500 (vs $59k) except that my EAP has more functionality than the current AP. That is less than $7,500 difference.
I do not feel bitter as I got to enjoy this magnificent car early on. I feel good about contributing to the technology development and price decreases, which enables more people to buy this car and improve the quality of air I breathe.
The people who say they were robbed need to realize that they were paying what the car costed at the time they bought it. The progress was amazingly fast, but that doesn't mean my car costed $7,5k less to produce half a year ago. It does cost less to produce NOW.
I can only say kudos to Elon Musk for the speed of progress. His focus is the mission asap, so if "values" of the cars bought in the last year have suffered, that is a collateral damage. If he delayed this by 1 year by making price cuts more moderate to not "hurt the feelings" that is 1 year plus to the sustainable energy/future. Not a good trade off. He made the right decision in cutting prices asap.
Additionally, model Y reveal without delivering on the prior promise of SR would bring a bad media coverage, he'd be called a liar and a betrayer of those who entrusted him their $1k for the M3 reservation. Now he's an honest man who keeps delivering on his promises(albeit sometimes a little late) an can start hyping up the Y with a clear conscience.
When I put my order in @59k (AWD+EAP), I knew that the price would go down. Being an early adopter of the technology has both pros and cons. You might experience extra issues & higher prices, but you get to use the new shiny object earlier.
In my view, FED + State tax incentives is actually what is mostly paying for the R&D and early adoption. That is what made the car more affordable to me and I fully expected that once the incentives are gone, the technology must have improved enough to subtract those incentives from the price.
My car now costs $51,500 (vs $59k) except that my EAP has more functionality than the current AP. That is less than $7,500 difference.
I do not feel bitter as I got to enjoy this magnificent car early on. I feel good about contributing to the technology development and price decreases, which enables more people to buy this car and improve the quality of air I breathe.
The people who say they were robbed need to realize that they were paying what the car costed at the time they bought it. The progress was amazingly fast, but that doesn't mean my car costed $7,5k less to produce half a year ago. It does cost less to produce NOW.
I can only say kudos to Elon Musk for the speed of progress. His focus is the mission asap, so if "values" of the cars bought in the last year have suffered, that is a collateral damage. If he delayed this by 1 year by making price cuts more moderate to not "hurt the feelings" that is 1 year plus to the sustainable energy/future. Not a good trade off. He made the right decision in cutting prices asap.
Additionally, model Y reveal without delivering on the prior promise of SR would bring a bad media coverage, he'd be called a liar and a betrayer of those who entrusted him their $1k for the M3 reservation. Now he's an honest man who keeps delivering on his promises(albeit sometimes a little late) an can start hyping up the Y with a clear conscience.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
That's not the complaint.
My car costed (sic) less now too to purchase. Don't care. Not upset.
I got to drive the car this whole time, and it's excellent.
EAP+FSD on the other hand now costs a good bit less... the entire price of FSD less.
And FSD has not been released yet
Apples and tomatoes comparing "physical product you got to enjoy for a while prior to price drops" and "vaporware you STILL don't have but vastly overpaid for by being dumb enough to trust Tesla"
I don't have any conclusions yet, only personal experiences and observations. The reason for soliciting other opinions is to try to present a balanced view, informed by actual customer experiences.
I can somewhat agree on the AP+FSD price changes.
I felt from the start that instead of EAP=$5k and FSD=$3k, the pricing should have been reversed, i.e. EAP=$3k and FSD=$5k, since FSD provides so much more functionality/value.
However, you do need both for FSD and some people would not buy a "vaporware" FSD and Tesla needed the money for the development while it was doing the development, so that is why I thought EAP was overpriced - so that whomever goes for the bells and whistles that nobody else in the industry is offering contributes a significant amount for the ongoing software development.
So, yes, that is a decision I made - EAP price is not fair and too much, but do I agree to pay it to have what it offers? Yes.
The current pricing is exactly what it should have been from the start. The total is still the same $8k. To help people feel better about their $5k EAP purchase, there's a discount on FSD, so I can buy it for $2k for a total of $7k.
So, people who prepaid for FSD are on a losing side a bit ($1k), but half of them did it consciously with the intent to contribute to the software development, not to lock in the FSD price and save money. I believe those who prepaid FSD will be invited to Y reveal as a form of compensation.
As a bigger picture, you need to realize that all these current tweaks affect a small number of buyers - they sold what, 250k M3s so far? And not all are with EAP/FSD. In the coming years they will be selling millions of cars and the current pricing makes sense. They might even be further decreasing it later, for ex. AP=$2k and FSD=$4k, once there's more competition or they make enough money to grow. Tesla is good about passing on savings to customers.
It all really comes down to your own decision: do you agree to pay as much as they charge today or not? If you feel the value provided is worth it, I think you were not robbed.
The FSD might be in Beta at the EOY or early next year, so it is not much longer it will stay a vaporware. These things will settle soon enough and I feel that Tesla is doing most that it can to grow and gain more customers. And alleviate concerns of existing customers
I do not understand any of the outrage over the price drop. The car is essentially a computer with wheels. As time goes by computers and phones increase in capability and at times go down in price. I expect the same with my Tesla. I purchased the car 10 months ago for $57K. Back than everyone was complaining that the price is too high and where is my $35K Tesla. If I purchased the same car today it would be about $8K less. I am happy for anyone who purchases the same car today at the lower price since they will be getting a great car at what I consider still a high price. Now you can buy a $35K M3 and everyone is complaining about a price drop for FSD... Like I said, I do not understand.
Tried to correct this in the original post, but I didn't see a way to edit it.
There's an error here in that Tesla actually swapped the prices of AutoPilot and Full Self Driving in the new pricing structure by rolling some of the features that had been in "Enhanced AutoPilot" into FSD (now $5K for new buyers) and reducing the functionality of EAP down to regular "AutoPilot" (now $3K for new buyers). The new AutoPilot is now missing navigate on autopilot, autopark and summon, which are *now* considered part of the "Full Self Driving" package. So AutoPilot now is basically just TACC (traffic aware cruise control) and auto-steer. The total price of buying EAP and FSD at time of purchase was accurate ($8,000) but the breakdown was switched in the new pricing model due to features being swapped from Column A to Column B. And that AP/FSD bundle was lowered to $5K to existing owners (a $3,000 discount).
To confuse things even more, Tesla is now offering "Full Self Driving" to existing customers who already had Enhanced Auto Pilot for just $2,000. So the pre-order argument remains: those who paid up front for full self-driving ended up paying more for a feature that still has not been delivered than those existing owners who are ordering it today.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Except they don't go down before they are delivered without the opportunity to get the lower price on your pre-order. you still haven't even received.
Well, they didn't until this crap Tesla is doing around FSD.
Let me simplify this a bit. I back a product on IndieGogo. Let's say it's a cool new speaker. I pay $250 up front so the company can use my money to complete development and production of the speaker. The promise is that I will get a discount on the speaker and will get it first, because I gave the company the money they needed to actually bring the speaker to market.
3 months later, the speaker still hasn't been delivered, but now the company offers that same future speaker to new backers for $150. So now Backer A ($250) and Backer B ($150) are going to get the exact same speaker (hopefully... some day), the only difference being Backer A paid more money for the privilege and waited longer.
Seem fair?
I still don't have my speaker.
Exactly. So, those who prepaid for FSD are at a disadvantage - either $1k compared to those who only paid for EAP or $3k to those who didn't buy any of EAP/FSD.
So my thoughts on this are:
1. It was very likely that the total price for EAP/FSD would go down in the future as with any technology that develops and gets more competition. So far, the total price of $8k holds.
There were some people who speculated that the price would go up as FSD becomes real, but that is their own assumption/speculation.
I felt that Musk's goal is to make world better/safer, so if FSD makes the world safer and many people can't afford the $8k extra, he will do what he can to bring the price down.
So, I think the assumption of growing FSD prices was wrong and people who decided to lock in just paid for their own wrong assumption.
2. The $1k or $3k "savings" for existing customers who didn't buy EAP/FSD previously...
So these people are either stingy, couldn't afford it, or felt that they are not getting as much value for the money...So, this is a bit of a clearance sale for them to entice them to pay now. This will be a 100% profit for Tesla if they pay and Tesla needs all the money they can get, considering a small profit or a loss guidance for Q1 2019.
This might be one of those "demand levers" to help them perform better financially in a short term.
Consider a possibility of AP/FSD prices being $2k/$4k a year from now.
Then these $1k/$3k savings will not look as such a "fire sale". But, they will help Tesla when they need the money the most to grow and if those "stingy bastards"
finally give up and start enjoying the features earlier, then it's a win for them too.Everybody wins except those who prepaid upfront. But with technology getting cheaper all the time, is it such a big shock/surprise?
In your example, how is this applicable to Tesla?
People who paid for EAP got what they were paying for.
People paid for FSD $3k before and now it's $5k. It is not any cheaper for the NEW backers.
It is only cheaper for the OLD backers, who did not have the money to shell out. Who spent all they could back then and now are offered a discount, so that Tesla can clean out their pockets of any remaining change.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Because those are prices on physical products you can actually take home with you.
The people who bought previously actually had a car to drive all that time in between
FSD however is an imaginary product still not delivered that some people can now pay less to pre-order than all the original people who pre-ordered.
In other words your comparison to the FSD pricing makes no sense.
How are people still not understanding this?
or they took Tesla at their word when Tesla literally told them in writing it would cost more if you didn't buy it pre-delivery of the car.
Given it's on an undelivered product? Yes- it's very shocking.
As I've asked for several times now- please name any other comparable example where a company dropped the price on an undelivered preorder and didn't allow the earlier buyers to either get the lower price, or cancel and reorder at the lower price.
It boggles the mind. I don't know what better examples to give. Hey, pre-order the new iPhone for $999 or wait a couple of weeks and pre-order the same iPhone for $699. You'll get the same iPhone at the exact same time. But you who had the excitement to pre-order earlier will pay $300 more. But you're OK with that, right?
justaute
Member
Yup. Plus, traditional ICE/dealer-based sales model is not the same in that it does not sell based on fixed, listed prices. When I bought my bimmer for ED delivery, I did copious research and came up with a price, which I then took it to several BMW dealers. No one argues, or should argue, that Tesla price should go down over time. That's not the crux of the issue -- mass model or not.
Yes, SOME. Not all.
This was a short term statement. Come on, the prices were fluctuating all the time.
AWD was $5k, then $4k(I bought here), then $5k again, now back to $4k.
The statement about higher "after delivery" price - I saw $1k more for EAP, then $500 more, then $1k more again.
How about Chinese getting EAP for free these days? Does it make me bitter about $5k I paid? I think this is a sensible strategy, either Tesla needs to collect more AP data there or customers are not able/willing to pay for it or it's a demand lever, also meant to offset tariffs etc. I think Tesla knows what it's doing.
It's an add-on, not a product by itself.
The only people who got the discount are those not able to pay for it in the first place. Not the new buyers.
So, maybe it feels a bit unfair, yes. But they are also early supporters with less means. Be happy for them. This will benefit the company and the service they are able to provide to you as a result.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Right.
That's the problem
Some people are now being allowed to buy a preorder, still vaporware, product for a lower price than some others already paid for it with no way to get the difference back.
That's unprecedented and insane.
Not really.
First part doesn't even make sense... You're suggesting they meant "It's cheaper if you buy before you take delivery, it'll cost more later, except then it won't so you're actually better off just waiting...."
Which isn't, at all, what they actually said.
Second part- the prices never dropped down to, or below, the pre-delivery price in the course of the several years they were telling you cheapest price is pre-delivery.
Prices fell on already delivered hardware and again- nobody's surprised or mad about that here. This is an utterly different case.
Oh, and guess what? some folks who ordered the car at 5k, and then the price dropped to 4k before delivery? Tesla refunded the overpayment
Because they knew the buyer could just cancel and reorder at the lower price anyway.
Folks are simply asking for the same thing regarding FSD.
Notice what those all have in common? They're all higher after delivery. You know, the thing Tesla actually promised.
Now? not so much.
That's pretty nonsequitor- prices vary heavily between countries- in Chinas case it was an attempt to work around tariff issues that will be jacking up car prices- but even then it applied to everyone there at the same time.
Also total nonsense.
There's slews of people here in all the previous "Should I buy FSD" threads who all make it clear they could afford to buy it- but chose not to for various reasons- Mostly "I don't want to spend any money on vaporware"
I was one of em for a while. The only thing that changed my mind was shortly before delivery we got news that HW3 was free with FSD and that the first FSD-only features would be here this spring.
So, entirely because Tesla told me it'd be more expensive later I dropped 3k back in September.
Now it's not even spring yet, FSD features still aren't here, HW3 still isn't here.... but my 3k is gone and all other previous owners who didn't fall for Teslas lie and waited get it cheaper than I did even post delivery.
Yes, HW3 was free with FSD. You wanted a guarantee and you bought the insurance for $3k.
First FSD features being the summon will likely be out soon, delayed by regulators right now.
So, you'll get what you paid for.
I didn't buy FSD because I stretched more than I expected, even saved on the paint. I was ready for it to cost more once it's real and maybe not pay for it at all in the future due to not being comfortable with that future price.
I took the risk, you took insurance instead. Why do you feel so bad now?
Nobody promised that those who did not buy the $3k insurance would not get HW3 without paying for it more... Please don't call your assumptions somebody else's lie.
I think that they may be able to work something out for you if you feel so wronged by $1k (potential) difference with me (I have not bought FSD for $2k).
The people who didn't buy EAP just don't have the money for this or enjoy driving themselves and see not much value in $8k package, so not really fair to ask for $3k back compared to them.
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Because Tesla had told me, in writing, that it wasn't "risk", but fact, that it'd cost more later.
So I took the lower priced based on their word.
Which they then broke.
I mean, they literally said it would cost more post-purchase
So yes, it's a lie.
I appreciate your optimism.
While I think a 3k refund is the correct response (see again how Tesla gave back 5k to P3D buyers, even the ones who never paid 5k in the first place for the extra package, a much less egregious screwing of its customers than this is), at least 1k would be something of value to address at least the lower price current EAP owners are getting.
But so far everyone who has inquired about exactly that has been flatly told no, you lose, you get nothing, good day sir.
I completely disagree with you here.
I always looked at these statements and pricing as short term.
For example, today the FSD is $3k and I decided not to buy.
If I change my mind tomorrow and add via the app it is going to be $4k with 99% probability.
A year from now, it may be $2k or $3k or $4k or $5k. They may likely try to honor the price that was advertised (so, no more than $4k), but that doesn't mean they are prohibited from dropping prices in the future.
In fact, few years from now, I think the $8k package will definitely go down.
Whether that justifies refunds for prior purchases - I think that the general answer is no, but depends on Tesla's good will.
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