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Solid-state vs lithium ion batteries?

Discussion in 'Battery Discussion' started by ffinder, Feb 9, 2014.

  1. ffinder

    ffinder New Member

    Oct 5, 2013
    #1 ffinder, Feb 9, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2014
    How about a really giant Tesla Solid State Battery factory..
    It seems a lot of progress is being made in the field of electric vehicle batteries.
    What do you think of these two options?

    Toyota Bets On Solid-State Batteries for 2020


    [Moderator note: please do not quote an entire article - "fair use" under copyright law only permits quoting an excerpt]
  2. Reykjavik

    Reykjavik Member

    Dec 9, 2013
    New York
    If they can make it work, great. But I don't exactly trust Toyota's judgement, they are pushing FCV technology while claiming that lithium ion batteries are too expensive.

    Lithium ion technology isn't perfect, but it is good enough today to be in worthwhile vehicles, and if the price continues to drop as expected, it will be good enough for use in more economical vehicles. We should not be sitting around waiting for a new technology to solve all our problems. Even if we assume that solid state batteries will be better in 2020, we still need to build our infrastructure to better suit EVs, we still need to eradicate the misconceptions about the technology, and we need to replace as many dinosaur burners for the ten or so years until the new batteries become prevalent in the mass market.
  3. curiousguy

    curiousguy curious member

    Oct 21, 2012
    Michigan, United States
    Toyota is a mega corporation. They spend R&D dollars on pretty much everything under the sun. I assume they like solid state because it does not use the flammable liquid electrolytes utilized in Li-ion while making use of the same anodes/cathodes. Thus they are inherently safer and do not require for example any cooling at the pack level. This means higher pack energy density even if the energy density per cell might be lower.

    The drawbacks with the technology is the slower diffusion through the solid state electrolyte as opposed to the liquid electrolyte (lower power). Time will tell how far they get with it.
  4. artsci

    artsci Sponsor

    May 10, 2012
    Timonium, Maryland
    Surprise, surprise. For one of the first times I read on Seeking Alpha a very well researched and written article on solid state battery technology. The author's very persuasive conclusion is that they are no threat to lithium ion technology, at least for automotive applications. Of course this investment is chump change for Toyota so they probably won't even notice when it's pissed away.
  5. RobStark

    RobStark Well-Known Member

    Jul 2, 2013
    Los Angeles
    Mark Hibben says no threat to Tesla within the next 10 years from new battery technology.

    It is what most of us here on TMC have been saying.

    Success in the lab then at minimum five years of testing before an OEM mass markets an EV with them.

    Mr Hibben points out all the OEMs have tested new technologies like fuel cells nickel metal hydride lithium ion for at least 10 years before actually putting the technology into a mass market vehicle. Not only testing the batteries for durability and safety but scalability for mass production.

    The idea that a solid state startup will show lab success tomorrow then GM is going to go head to head with solid state battery EVs against Model 3 in 2017 is almost ludicrous.

    This is some of the nonsense TSLA bears have been peddling. That the GF is a dangerous gamble because one of these startups will give the tech to one of the OEMs to leapfrog Tesla since Tesla is wedded to lithium-ion.

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