Solution to charge your Model 3 if you don't have any garage?

[callmesam]

Yep, that's exactly what I was talking about. But do note that it does not mention that these superchargers were for locals who already have home charging, and also note the date is from 2 years ago. As I noted, the San Francisco, New York stations are still nowhere to be seen (New York has a JFK station, but none in the actual Manhattan city area, much less a cluster of them, as they done in other cities). And Tesla recently switched strategy in New York to destination chargers in paid garages, not superchargers.
http://nypost.com/2016/03/17/tesla-stations-in-nyc-on-verge-of-outnumbering-gas-stations/

All Superchargers are for locals without home charging.

I guess I missed that above from you and Canuck.

Since this thread is "What you do if you don't have a garage" then one answer is to Supercharge.

 

[TaoJones]

What? This place has gone nuts lately. You can use the car for local travel. You can't use Superchargers for local charging.
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So please get off of your high horse.
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Except the non-garaged *can* use SCs for local charging. Garaged locals, as a rule, do not, and the few that do certainly don't charge on an extended daily basis (this is made-up hyperbole with zero basis in reality) - *except for livery* (which is a commercial outlier).

Why spend so much time chasing ghosts, when Tesla is on record for 2 years as supporting local charging (just not by the garaged, who account for 2/3 of the homes in the US)? Let it go. See voter fraud in the US. Just because it can exist does not mean it does exist in any significant measure. Yet much handwringing ensues for political gain with the underlying motive being to reduce lower-income voter participation. In this thread, there seems to be a poorly-thought-through movement to dissuade those of less means from buying EVs. Same church, different pew.

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In actuality, Tesla policy explicitly allows those with no easy access to home charging to use superchargers (that was what the city chargers in large cities like Hong Kong were installed for).

However, Tesla had never suggested they wanted people to use it as a replacement for home charging when that option was easily available (that was the subject of the letter about local supercharging).

Now that quote right there is both accurate and succinct. Sam Clemons would gleefully hand out cigars.

The only gap not referenced is livery and, with the exception of Schiphol, I think it just hasn't risen to a problematic level yet. While it may, as car prices drop, it's not like Tesla doesn't know exactly who most of the livery folks are by their usage patterns.
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Tesla had also adjusted their strategy somewhat: they suggested they would install city superchargers in NYC and SF years ago, but recently in NYC ,Tesla said they would install slower destination chargers instead (in paid parking garages).

This approach will be quite interesting to see as it evolves. NYC has 8 million people. LA County and the OC have what, double that? Totally different approaches for the different areas (the latter will continue to get SCs to meet demand). I suspect it has something to do with the per capita car ownership. Many people just don't bother with car ownership in either NYC or SF, yet they live in $2M condos. In LA, it's not about owning a car - it's about how many cars you own. I'm not saying that's a Good Thing. At all.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Ok, so let's say it costs Tesla $2000 (per car) of the $2500 to actually fund the site plan, building and long term maintenance of the site. That gives you rights to $500 worth of electricity over the lifetime of the car.

You are still not hearing me. I PAID $2500 for supercharging. I'm not trying to be insensitive - I'm being honest. I really really don't care how much it costs Tesla or anyone else behind the scenes to do anything. I PAID $2500. I really wouldn't mind not super charging at all and have Tesla not charge me $2500. Isn't that fair?

If I don't have a garage....I purchase supercharging for $2500 and use the superchargers. Whats wrong with that?
I'll even pay another $2500 for another $2500 worth of supercharging. I'm not looking for anything free.

No Garage - Supercharge. The problem is that Tesla never asked me if I have a garage.

 

[wycolo]

Do you have off-street parking on your property, ie a driveway? It is irrelevant whether or not there is a garage . . . [scurries back into the woods].

 

[stopcrazypp]

This approach will be quite interesting to see as it evolves. NYC has 8 million people. LA County and the OC have what, double that? Totally different approaches for the different areas (the latter will continue to get SCs to meet demand). I suspect it has something to do with the per capita car ownership. Many people just don't bother with car ownership in either NYC or SF, yet they live in $2M condos. In LA, it's not about owning a car - it's about how many cars you own. I'm not saying that's a Good Thing. At all.

I touched on this before. NYC and SF is much closer to Hong Kong (where the stations have been reported to have chronic congestion) and other "city supercharger" locations mentioned (like Beijing, Shanghai, London). Tesla's actions in NYC seems to suggest they won't be using superchargers to handle city charging, so I don't have hope a supercharger would be installed in SF (unless the payment method changes as I suggested).

LA and OC county may have a high population, but sprawl is also much larger than the cities mentioned. Downtown LA probably is closest in style, but Tesla have not installed a supercharger in there yet.

 

[stopcrazypp]

All Superchargers are for locals without home charging.

I guess I missed that above from you and Canuck.

Since this thread is "What you do if you don't have a garage" then one answer is to Supercharge.

See one comment up from your previous one.
Solution to charge your Model 3 if you don't have any garage?

 

[SmartElectric]

I PAID $2500 for supercharging. I'm not trying to be insensitive - I'm being honest. I really really don't care how much it costs Tesla or anyone else behind the scenes to do anything.

You claim that Tesla would be somehow taking something from you. Your position is not defensible. Tesla needs to build infrastructure as part of the total offering of their vehicle and it's supporting platform. Will you also try to use every last ounce of the 4g they provide in the vehicle, like making sure you are running high bandwidth web pages from the car constantly?

People pay for lots of things they don't get full use of, but the sum effect is to enable something greater for everyone. Think schools, roads, etc.

Do you feel the same way when buying a gas car, and realizing you PAID for those companies to run ads on TV, but you didn't ever watch those ADS OMG, you PAID!!!!! lol

 

[Haxster]

Y
People pay for lots of things they don't get full use of, but the sum effect is to enable something greater for everyone. Think schools, roads, etc.

And some things you pay for for decades hoping that you don't get ANY use of...like life insurance.

 

[callmesam]

See one comment up from your previous one.
Solution to charge your Model 3 if you don't have any garage?

Sorry. Missed your response 49 posts into the thread.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Sorry. Missed your response 49 posts into the thread.

It might have been while you were writing the post quoting Elon. Sometimes I also miss posts because they were posted while I was writing a post.

Anyways, to bring this back on topic, charging at a supercharger is not a viable solution for a garage-less owner in SF until they actually install one here in SF. And as I pointed out, Tesla's actions in NYC suggest they might never do so (at least while still following the same payment model). It'll be interesting to see what happens in part 2 of the Model 3 unveiling.

 

[Garlan Garner]

You claim that Tesla would be somehow taking something from you. Your position is not defensible. Tesla needs to build infrastructure as part of the total offering of their vehicle and it's supporting platform. Will you also try to use every last ounce of the 4g they provide in the vehicle, like making sure you are running high bandwidth web pages from the car constantly?

People pay for lots of things they don't get full use of, but the sum effect is to enable something greater for everyone. Think schools, roads, etc.

Do you feel the same way when buying a gas car, and realizing you PAID for those companies to run ads on TV, but you didn't ever watch those ADS OMG, you PAID!!!!! lol

I could care less about what a company uses the money I pay for a product for. I don't care the least bit whether they pay for ads on TV or anything. They can use the money to go to the moon or buy golden toilet seats. I just don't care. When I buy a car from a dealer I NEVER investigate what they do with that money. I have never cared. I don't think about roads, schools, or anything else. If I pay the money for a car....I believe the car is worth the money I paid.


When Tesla says that the car price is XYZ.....I happily pay XYZ if I think its worth it. When Tesla says that an "Option" costs $2500 and then I choose that option, then I expect something for that option. For clarity sake, I called a Tesla sales person in Oakbrook Illinois and they told me to use their SuperCharger as much as I wanted. I AM going to use it to the tune of $2500.

 

[stopcrazypp]

When Tesla says that the car price is XYZ.....I happily pay XYZ if I think its worth it. When Tesla says that an "Option" costs $2500 and then I choose that option, then I expect something for that option. For clarity sake, I called a sales person in Oakbrook Illinois and they told me to use their SuperCharger as much as I wanted. I AM going to use it to the tune of $2500.

I think his point was how do you determine how much usage is $2500? You have to assign that number somehow.

Also, you are neglecting to factor in the hardware/software costs. The way the S60 upgrade was worded was that it paid for the hardware/software. This is similar to how for the Leaf/Spark EV/i3 DC charging cost $700-$750 as an option simply for the hardware/software.

 

[callmesam]

It might have been while you were writing the post quoting Elon. Sometimes I also miss posts because they were posted while I was writing a post.

Anyways, to bring this back on topic, charging at a supercharger is not a viable solution for a garage-less owner in SF until they actually install one here in SF. And as I pointed out, Tesla's actions in NYC suggest they might never do so (at least while still following the same payment model). It'll be interesting to see what happens in part 2 of the Model 3 unveiling.

This OP is in Noe Valley about 17 miles from the Supercharger in San Mateo.

Or if he drives to SV, then he can charge at Mountain View, 35 miles from his house.

Dublin is ~35 miles from his house.

As far as convenience, the Destination Charger program is a better fit than multiple Superchargers in a city center, but none near the OP.

 

[stopcrazypp]

This OP is in Noe Valley about 17 miles from the Supercharger in San Mateo.

Or if he drives to SV, then he can charge at Mountain View, 35 miles from his house.

Dublin is ~35 miles from his house.

As far as convenience, the Destination Charger program is a better fit than multiple Superchargers in a city center, but none near the OP.

Having to drive 30-70 miles to charge (if you count the roundtrip) is not a practical solution for daily driving. It might work if the commute happened to be along the way, but not if the driving is primarily in the city and you weren't heading that way.

I've avoided mentioning it, but I guess I should since I've jumped into the conversation. They can install city superchargers in SF proper as they did in Hong Kong and make them paid (in Hong Kong parking is not free). The only adjustment they might have to make is to make it additional cost: it can't be flat rate parking or discounted parking since that can lead to hogging as happened in Hong Kong, and overall costs should be equivalent or higher than home charging so it is not attractive to locals that don't need it. They may also have to rebrand to keep the "free" promise (name it "urban charger" or something similar).

However, if the plan is only to be completely free, I can see why Tesla has hesitated and is instead moving to a destination charger program.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I think his point was how do you determine how much usage is $2500? You have to assign that number somehow.

Also, you are neglecting to factor in the hardware/software costs. The way the S60 upgrade was worded was that it paid for the hardware/software. This is similar to how for the Leaf/Spark EV/i3 DC charging cost $700-$750 as an option simply for the hardware/software.

Very simple.

This is how I track my costs.... Its surprisingly accurate and extremely easy . I just multiply my used KWH used by my homes' KWH price average which is $.06 cents. For me a total of $1.06 per day.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Look at my post above. Do you know how long it will take me to get to $2500 in charging costs? I only have to supercharge for 18 min a day. If TESLA is going to have a cow over $1.06 a day and 18 min of charging.....then .....I don't know what to say.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Very simple.

This is how I track my costs.... Its surprisingly accurate and extremely easy . I just multiply my used KWH used by my homes' KWH price average which is $.06 cents. For me a total of $1.06 per day.

This is the same "replacement for home charging" argument, which Tesla said their network was not intended for and also underestimates the true costs.

It seems the DC charging operator that services your area is EVgo and they charge $5 per session and $0.20 per minute for DC charging, so the same charge (which would take 20 minutes on a 50kW charger) would cost $9. If you get the monthly $15 option for $0.10 per minute, that brings price down to $2.5 ($2 + $0.50 daily), but still twice as much as your estimate. This gives a better estimate of how much true costs are for the given charging on a public network.

Look at my post above. Do you know how long it will take me to get to $2500 in charging costs? I only have to supercharge for 18 min a day. If TESLA is going to have a cow over $1.06 a day and 18 min of charging.....then .....I don't know what to say.

That is only 6.5 years worth of electricity (not including onboard hardware/software costs and network installation/maintenance costs). Tesla has to amortize for at least 8 years of car life (and a car might be using the supercharger network longer than that). This is why Tesla had an issue with locals using superchargers as a replacement for home charging when they have other means.

 

[Garlan Garner]

This is the same "replacement for home charging" argument, which Tesla said their network was not intended for and also underestimates the true costs.

It seems the DC charging operator that services your area is EVgo and they charge $5 per session and $0.20 per minute for DC charging, so the same charge (which would take 20 minutes on a 50kW charger) would cost $9. If you get the monthly $15 option for $0.10 per minute, that brings price down to $2.5 ($2 + $0.50 daily), but still twice as much as your estimate. This gives a better estimate of how much true costs are for the given charging on a public network.


That is only 6.5 years worth of electricity (not including onboard hardware/software costs and network installation/maintenance costs). Tesla has to amortize for at least 8 years of car life (and a car might be using the supercharger network longer than that). This is why Tesla had an issue with locals using superchargers as a replacement for home charging when they have other means.

You are forgetting.... I don't care. Call a sales agent for yourself. Obviously Elon M. has not decimated the correct information to them.

They can give me back my $2500 and I won't use their superchargers..... Its very easy.

 

[Zoomit]

Very simple.

This is how I track my costs.... Its surprisingly accurate and extremely easy . I just multiply my used KWH used by my homes' KWH price average which is $.06 cents. For me a total of $1.06 per day.

Facinating--You're equating the value of the Supercharger option directly to the value of the electricity you'd get from using the Supercharger network.

What value do you put on having the nation-wide network available for your use besides the Warrenville SC?

What value do you place on the speed of recharging? What if the Superchargers only put out 50kW like other DC fast chargers?

I guess my point is that you're getting an economic utility from having access to the SC network independent of how much you actually use them, and independent how many dollars of electricity you use.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Facinating--You're equating the value of the Supercharger option directly to the value of the electricity you'd get from using the Supercharger network.

What value do you put on having the nation-wide network available for your use besides the Warrenville SC?

What value do you place on the speed of recharging? What if the Superchargers only put out 50kW like other DC fast chargers?

I guess my point is that you're getting an economic utility from having access to the SC network independent of how much you actually use them, and independent how many dollars of electricity you use.

Maybe it is fascinating....lol.

I don't put any value on having a nation-wide network - Just like I don't put any value on free wifi across the nation at every Starbucks.

I don't care about the Starbuck in NY or MS or anywhere else.

I will stop using it when I reach $2500 in usage. That's going to be a long time from now.

They can easily give me my $2500 dollars back.

I suppose the main difference between myself and others in this thread is that you guys care about Tesla. Your choice. They are nothing more than a vendor to me. Just like Starbucks and McDonalds.