Solved*: AP, TACC, Auto Wipers & Lights

2022.36.5. 9/21 build Model Y LR, no FSD.

tl;dr In the most extreme dark heavy rain, without human visibility of lane lines or even the road surface, AP never gave up. Auto wipers are near perfect, auto hi/lo beams also really really good.

I've been extremely critical here over the past year of all the above, but I'm ready to say it's all ready for prime time, at least in my car. If I was in charge, I'd put it all on the list for production release candidates, if these results could be validated on all model/config variations.

So last night I drove from Portland to The Dalles on I84 in a serious deluge. From late dusk to full dark, with bad crosswinds, rain/mist blowing sideways at times, fully obscuring the road for up to 10-15 seconds at a time, hitting several bad standing water patches, getting dumped on from trucks coming the other way, AP never gave up or made any mistakes. Rain was often so hard at times fastest wipers could not keep up.

Honestly, I should have pulled over a couple times, it was so bad.

AP kept working well beyond any reasonable person's limit of safe driving conditions. To me, that's solved. Can't ask for anything beyond that.

Wipers need interventions exactly 2x over 2 hours, an extra wipe, way easier than any manual wipers I've ever owned.

Brights are not perfect, still a bit timid and flicker some both on the high and low ends, but almost never the wrong way. I did have to dip them twice in weird situations, but otherwise fine.

Today in bright daylight, AP drove through bad mirages cresting hills, the last place it still failed for me. I call that solved too.

*Caveats:

-This was one drive in one car, and not really foggy conditions.
-I'd like to see following distance basically doubled from the 7 setting.

Hats off Tesla, well done.

(Admin note: Image added by admin for thumbnail)

 

[Kimmi]

Very light mist and they acted like it was a downpour.

 

[OxBrew]

Rain in Southern California today. The windshield wipers still suck!

I believe you. What model/month/year built?

 

[Kimmi]

LR AW. Delivery date 12/29/20
36.6 software.

 

[Electric700]

2022.36.5. 9/21 build Model Y LR, no FSD.

tl;dr In the most extreme dark heavy rain, without human visibility of lane lines or even the road surface, AP never gave up. Auto wipers are near perfect, auto hi/lo beams also really really good.

I've been extremely critical here over the past year of all the above, but I'm ready to say it's all ready for prime time, at least in my car. If I was in charge, I'd put it all on the list for production release candidates, if these results could be validated on all model/config variations.

So last night I drove from Portland to The Dalles on I84 in a serious deluge. From late dusk to full dark, with bad crosswinds, rain/mist blowing sideways at times, fully obscuring the road for up to 10-15 seconds at a time, hitting several bad standing water patches, getting dumped on from trucks coming the other way, AP never gave up or made any mistakes. Rain was often so hard at times fastest wipers could not keep up.

Honestly, I should have pulled over a couple times, it was so bad.

AP kept working well beyond any reasonable person's limit of safe driving conditions. To me, that's solved. Can't ask for anything beyond that.

Wipers need interventions exactly 2x over 2 hours, an extra wipe, way easier than any manual wipers I've ever owned.

Brights are not perfect, still a bit timid and flicker some both on the high and low ends, but almost never the wrong way. I did have to dip them twice in weird situations, but otherwise fine.

Today in bright daylight, AP drove through bad mirages cresting hills, the last place it still failed for me. I call that solved too.

*Caveats:

-This was one drive in one car, and not really foggy conditions.
-I'd like to see following distance basically doubled from the 7 setting.

Hats off Tesla, well done.

View attachment 872315
(Admin note: Image added by admin for thumbnail)

This is excellent! How do the cameras see properly in such conditions? I suspect that they have special sensing capabilities built in that can see through rain, snow and fog.

 

[electric-donut]

I have 2018 MS-FSDb and notice with latest software update that auto wipers seem to be working in a much more "human" fashion than just a few weeks ago. I agree, they seem to work a little more frequently than I would choose when FSD is doing the driving, but I would say its not annoying any more...

While FSD tries and succeeds very well to drive in the rain, it does give one a white knuckle experience at times, to the point where I just turn it off. During rain, FSD displays message that FSD performance can be diminished, so even Tesla knows they have issues to address during poor visibility. At the same time, FSD almost never slows down at times when I would. I guess that's why we have to remain vigilant when using it.

 

[Dewg]

When FSD Beta / AP is engaged, the wipers may run faster than you would normally do as a human, because the camera will operate better with less rain on the windshield. As long as it's raining, this shouldn't be a problem. The issue some people have is dry wipes, which hopefully are being mitigated with recent updates.

 

[electric-donut]

I did notice the dry wipes before the update last week, so maybe there is some improvement. I have noticed before that it would even operate the washer to spray the windshield. I thought that was amusing...

 

[BitJam]

-I'd like to see following distance basically doubled from the 7 setting.

Amen brother (sister?)!

For me the auto wipers and auto brights have been much more of a help than a hindrance even though they are not perfect. But that short maximum follow distance is a pain. I will adjust my speed to avoid following someone so closely even with perfect weather and visibility.

 

[OxBrew]

Amen brother (sister?)!

For me the auto wipers and auto brights have been much more of a help than a hindrance even though they are not perfect. But that short maximum follow distance is a pain. I will adjust my speed to avoid following someone so closely even with perfect weather and visibility.

(Brother, thanks)

Yeah, best I can tell, 7 is about 2 seconds following distance at a steady 70mph. It rubber bands +/- a bit if speeds are changing.

I can't relax until I'm at about a steady 3-5 second gap when cruising. Longer is better. As my wife says, the farther back you are, the less hyper focused you have to be.

Also, you have more options when it all goes pear shaped.

I do the same, slow down to get a good following distance, until I can pass safely, if that's what I need to do.

 

[PVia]

Agree with the follow distance, even at 7...at 65mph I'd rather see a gradual braking than wondering "is it going to stop?" and sometimes I disengage. It's a psychological thing, I know, but it's difficult to trust the car in the beginning. That's my feeling, at least, one month into owning the car.

 

[Transformer]

Agree with the follow distance, even at 7...at 65mph I'd rather see a gradual braking than wondering "is it going to stop?" and sometimes I disengage. It's a psychological thing, I know, but it's difficult to trust the car in the beginning. That's my feeling, at least, one month into owning the car.

Yes. I watch it like a hawk.

 

[OxBrew]

Well that was nice while it lasted. Updated to 2023.2.12 a couple weeks ago from 2022. IDK there was a .44 and a .6 I think, forget the exact order. Late 2022 software. It still worked great for free AP, solid lane keeping, no PB in about 10k miles, literally zero.

On the new software, had 4 PB on a 300 mile trip Spokane to Seattle, the lanekeeping ping pongs so bad I had to stop using it. Scared people next to me out of their lanes trying to avoid me.

On the way back the PB was worse, had about 10, and the ping pong has a pattern now: at the start of a long sweeping curve, it ping pongs for the first half, then settles in. Then at the end of the curve, on a straight, it takes about 4-5 ping pongs to find the center.

WTH. Regressions like this are just so unfathomable.

Was I in some A-B test where they let me have a great AP setting, at the expense of false negative detections, and at a higher risk of slamming into a stopped truck or something?

What ever. Back on the update train until I get one that works again.

 

[PVia]

I'm on 2023.2.12 and I haven't had any lane ping-pong or PB at all on my M3 LR EAP.
Make sure your cameras are clean and calibrated...but I know what you mean re: regressions.
They can be so disappointing.

 

[Dewg]

Make sure GPS is pinpoint accurate.

 

[Transformer]

PB varies with weather conditions, at least, whatever conditions cause mirages (more info). Driving through Arizona to California a few weeks ago, I encountered several mirages per hour and gave up on TACC. The air was not hot; just warmer than the road.

It's a challenging case for the vision system to tell if the road even continues, let alone find the lane lines. Drivers handle this by knowing about mirages and watching the traffic ahead go through them.

I bet the car's radar would be a lot better than the cameras for these conditions.

 

[OxBrew]

It was handling mirages fine, even low sun straight ahead until this last update.

Cameras are clean GPS is fine. Everything the same as before, when it worked perfectly.

I wonder if it was the service for the rear defroster. It had a fault in the system for it, maybe they did some level of reset beyond what we can do.

 

[enemji]

Drivers handle this by knowing about mirages and watching the traffic ahead go through them.

I bet the car's radar would be a lot better than the cameras for these conditions.

Even the vision AP handles it the same, if you had a vehicle ahead of you within the range, it will have no issues.

 

[Transformer]

Even the vision AP handles it the same, if you had a vehicle ahead of you within the range, it will have no issues.

Oh. Traffic was light enough that any vehicle ahead was well beyond following distance.

 

[enemji]

Oh. Traffic was light enough that any vehicle ahead was well beyond following distance.

Yup. That is how all these new intelligent systems operate. The old systems were “If I can’t see or feel anything ahead of me, keep going”.

The new systems are “If I cannot discover anything ahead or in my range of senses, slow down and even discontinue”

 

[KArnold]

That is how all these new intelligent systems operate.

Well like anything else, it depends. As a human, if I lost all visual reference...

1. If sudden fog/sand/snow, I'd slow considerably and maybe stop with emergency flashers on.

2. If due to loss of a road markings, perhaps a long straight road, paint gets weak, gravel, whatever - not sure I'd do much, perhaps slow a bit. But I've never encountered such a situation in 50 years of driving.

Just another bug in the stack. Just have it perform human-like.