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Some assistance needed from brand new D owners with simple data collection

Discussion in 'Model S: User Interface' started by Andyw2100, May 23, 2015.

  1. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

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    Have you taken delivery of a D model (P85D, S85D, S70D) in the past few weeks--say any time since May 1, 2015? If so, it would be great if you would help with some simple data collection, so that we can figure out whether an issue has been resolved or not.

    I'll explain.

    There was an issue with the D models' odometers that saw them all overstating actual distance traveled by about .8%. There is a thread on this topic, which I'll include the link to below, but you don't need to read the whole thread to help. In fact, you don't need to read any of it, unless you want to.

    Do P85Ds and S85Ds have inaccurate odometers that overstate distance traveled?

    In a nutshell, the problem was identified, and then confirmed by a good number of users, driving on both the snow tires and all season tires that are sold with the cars. Though the variance was within specifications, this inaccuracy had not existed in prior Model S models. Since it was consistent at .8% we hoped that it might be a simple error in a formula. I wrote to Tesla, letting them know what we had found, hoping it might be an easy fix.

    Since coming back from having my winter wheels taken off and my all season wheels put on in late April, my odometer is now providing accurate mileage figures. My P85D was also updated to firmware version 6.2.2.4.188 (.188 for short) at that time. I initially attributed the fix to the firmware update alone, but others with firmware .188 were not seeing the more accurate odometer readings. Someone suggested that perhaps the fix was in the firmware update, but that it also required either a TPMS reset and/or a wheel change for the fix to take effect. This is where you, as new owners, come in.

    Assuming you took delivery with version .188 or later, the fix, assuming there is one, should already be on your cars. If that's true, your cars will have accurate odometers.

    It would be great if you could record some trips, comparing the mileage your D reports to some other reliable source for the actual distance. This could be something like Google maps, or a GPS system--you get the idea.

    You would just post with information as follows:

    Model: P85D
    Delivery Date: May 5, 2015
    Current Firmware version: .213
    Firmware version at time of delivery (if known): .188

    Odometer MileageActual MileageSource (Actual Mileage)



    24.324.4Google Maps
    57.957.7Garmin GPS
    I'm sure you understand. If you have any questions, just ask.

    If we get even just a handful of people reporting even just a handful of trips, we should be able to tell whether or not Tesla has solved this problem in the Ds. Once we have some data to report, I'll update the thread above as well.

    Thanks a lot!
     
  2. rdavidw

    rdavidw Member

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    After I get my car and I have a paint correction and coating done, I am going to take a road trip from Maryland to Florida and back. I will track my mileage and report once I get back, around a month from now. Thanks for the thread Andy.
     
  3. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

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    Excellent! And much appreciated.

    Just to be clear, though, since no one else has posted any numbers yet, the trips really don't need to be very long. Even forty or fifty mile trips would be fine. It would be good just to start collecting some data, to see where we stand on this.
     
  4. pmoa

    pmoa Member

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    Andy I will be taking a road trip on the 17th to a supercharger and I will collect some data. I am intrigued by this issue.
     
  5. MichFin

    MichFin Member

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    I just got my car Wednesday and I'm going to take a long ride tomorrow I'll map it with Google and compare
     
  6. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

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    Excellent! Thanks. And definitely don't feel like you need to wait for a long trip to report some data. Someone has to be the first!
     
  7. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to report some data myself, and then explain why, and what I think it might mean.

    On Friday I took a trip from Syracuse to Rochester and back. (The trip back is shorter because I stopped at the Syracuse supercharger and only tracked the mileage to that point.) Below is the data for the two "trips", including four different start and end points.

    Model: P85D
    Delivery Date: December 24, 2014
    Current Firmware version: 6.2.2.4.236
    Firmware version at time of delivery (if known): Irrelevant

    Odometer MileageActual MileageDifference%Source (Actual Mileage)





    94.693.750.850.907Mapquest
    82.781.990.710.866Mapquest
    So...what do I think the above means?

    Well, it would appear that my odometer actually is still overstating the actual mileage, and by very close to the exact amount--.8% or so--that people seemed to think the odometers were off by before. In that case, how do I explain my earlier theory that the problem had been corrected?

    The 50-60 mile trips I had been recording --WERE-- being recorded by the Model S as being shorter than they had been, by a few tenths of a mile. I'm now thinking that with my snow tires on, my odometer (and presumably all D odometers, or at least the early ones) was overstating mileage by substantially more than that .8%. I had never attempted to quantify how much my odometer was overstating the mileage by. It was others who came up with the .8% figure. I couldn't quantify my overstatement because of the length of my driveway, my wife driving around the parking lot at the other end of the trip, etc. I just knew that even with those distances added in, the mileage had to still be overstated. After my car came back from the service center with the all-seasons on, and with the software update, the overstatement amount came down by very close to that .8% figure. I'm now thinking that I very well may have reached the wrong conclusion that Tesla had corrected the problem, when in actuality, the problem is just worse with snow tires on.

    It will still be interesting to have some people with new Ds report their data, to see if the odometers are still overstating mileage this way.

    It will also be interesting to see if the snow tires increase the effect of this, but of course we'll have to wait a while before people put their snow tires on again.

    Sorry for the false alarm, if that's what my thoughts that the problem was resolved turn out to have been.
     
  8. ibdb

    ibdb 3 Car Garage and a 5 Car Life

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    I haven't had a trip that I could reliably use to try to measure yet, but I'll keep an eye out for the next opportunity.
     
  9. ibdb

    ibdb 3 Car Garage and a 5 Car Life

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    So I sort of had a chance to measure using the highway mileage markers I passed by on part of my route home. I can't completely vouch for their accuracy, but didn't try to Google map it, either.

    Over 16 miles indicated by the highway mile markers, my trip odometer reported 16.3 miles traveled - about 1.9% high. It seemed like about every 6 miles things got out of sync by .1 miles. At 5 miles indicated, the trip odometer seemed to match up pretty well with the mile markers, but by the time we hit 6 miles, there was enough difference to notice they were different. The same pattern seemed to repeat -- so somewhere around 1.7% high.

    I'd still like to try a longer drive with a GPS, but just haven't had the opportunity yet.

    19" tires on an 85D delivered 6/3.
     
  10. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the report!
     
  11. mposki

    mposki Member

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    #11 mposki, Jun 15, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2015
    I am curious about how you are measuring the 'actual' mileage as using Google Maps or even a GPS would almost always underestimate as it doesn't take into affect things that add small bits of distance to drives, like lane changes etc... With those tools you cannot be sure what distance they use to measure around a corner (inside lane is shorter than outside lane) while these 2 examples might not make a big difference they do make a difference. There are most certainly other factors that would affect mapped distance v actual driven distance. Are there examples of people driving the same routes in older Model S cars?

    A MUCH better test would be to compare odometers of 2 cars driving the EXACT same route lanes and all. Just me 2 cents.

    It looks like @Breser essentially did perform the experiment the way I suggested and did show a .3% difference. That said even at .8% that means after 10000 miles of 'actual' distance your odo might show 10080 which is well within some measure of statistical acceptance.
     
  12. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

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    Please see the first few posts in the thread I linked to in the first post in this thread for side by side comparisons.

    In this thread I was not attempting to exactly quantify the problem, or to again confirm the existence of the issue. I was simply trying to collect a little data to see if the problem has been solved or not.

    For what it's worth, the best way to compare what the odometer is recording against actual mileage traveled would probably be using GPS, which Danal did in the original thread.
     
  13. GlmnAlyAirCar

    GlmnAlyAirCar Member

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    Location:
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    Model: 70D
    Delivery Date: June 1, 2015
    Current Firmware version: need to look up - will update
    Firmware version at time of delivery (if known): same

    It appears for this one trip, the mileage is overestimated by around 1.4%. A little higher than .8% but consistent with the observation that model D is overstating mileage.
    Odometer MileageActual MileageSource (Actual Mileage)
    49.248.5Google Maps
     
  14. Anthony7

    Anthony7 Member

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    Model: 70D
    Delivery: June 17
    Current Firmware: v6 (2.4.245)

    I did several tests today with my Garmin and all were pretty equal

    IMG_1100.jpg
     
  15. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

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    Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think tests with a distance that short just really aren't useful. The Garmin showed the distance as 3.48 miles. The Tesla showed it as 3.5, which presumably could have been anywhere between 3.46 and 3.54. For argument's sake, if it was 3.54, then the Tesla overstated the mileage by 1.7%, which is certainly significant. If, on the other hand, the Tesla mileage was really 3.46 miles, then the Tesla understated the mileage.

    I certainly appreciate the accuracy of the Garmin. It would be good to compare what the Garmin records to what the Model S records on a trip of at least forty or fifty miles.
     

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