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Some California Superchargers not providing maximum charging rates

Discussion in 'California Supercharger locations' started by Tony8489, Aug 15, 2016.

  1. Doug Martoccia

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Messages:
    240
    Location:
    Hermosa Beach, California, United States
    I charged up in Fresno on both Tuesday and Friday (in the blazing heat) with no problems. All charging rates were normal as I range charged to over 90%. On Tuesday, only one other car was present - on Friday, I was all by myself. This location could really use a solar canopy!
     
  2. Ingineer

    Ingineer Electrical Engineer

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,484
    I too have experienced the throttling at some SpC's. I don't yet have enough information to say for sure what the cause is, but I can tell you for sure what it isn't:

    1. Car overheating. I can verify, at least in my experience, you can't get the car (battery) hot enough to cause the throttling I've experienced by highway driving regardless of weather. As others have also pointed out, sometimes just a stall change rectifies the issue, proving it's on the SpC side, not the car side.

    2. Utility Causes. The limit of the utility interface is the transformer. If the SpC load was to exceed the rating of the transformer for too long, it would blow it's primary fuse and the whole site would go dark. Presently, There is no mechanism for the utility to tell the SpC controllers to throttle. Now this wouldn't stop Tesla from throttling due to demand fees, but AFAIK the demand fees, at least here on PG&E, are going to get triggered the first time someone SpC's one single car. So they likely just have to eat them. This may very from utility to utility, but I can't see them trying to skirt it be throttling.

    Theories:

    1. Thermal concerns in the cable/connector. There is thermal monitoring, and I suspect they also watch total voltage drop from cabinet to pack. If this is exceeded due to a worn cable or connector, this may cause a given stall to limit it's current. I've definitely found stalls with bad connectors. I try to carefully inspect the connector before I connect it to my car. I use a bright flashlight and look for excessive wear or signs of prior overheating and if I find that, I switch stalls.

    2. Defective modules. As others have mentioned, the SpC cabinets are made up of 12 chargers from a pre-refresh Model S. Each one of these is capable of about 12kW by itself, but they are arranged in 4 groups of 3 each for a total of up to 144kW (depending on generation and assuming everything is perfect). The 4 groups can be switched independently from one paired stall to another (A/B). A failure could result in one group being offline which could kill 25% of the cabinets capacity. This means that each cabinet can partition the stalls in the following modes:
    A=100% B=0%
    A=75% B=25%
    A=50% B=50%
    A=25% B=75%
    A=0% B=100%
    Failures of one or more modules or one or more groups could easily limit that cabinets power output.

    [​IMG]
     
    • Informative x 9
    • Like x 1
  3. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    16,281
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    No charging problem for me at Manteca last Thursday in 90F+ heat or today at Manteca in mild 71F temp.
     
  4. AMPd

    AMPd Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Messages:
    2,495
    Location:
    Northern California
    Charged up in Vacaville and Petaluma
    No problems, charged normally!
     
  5. Khatsalano

    Khatsalano Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2015
    Messages:
    668
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    Both Harris Ranch and Buttonwillow gave > 100kW at peak today. Can't tell if tapering curve has been modified, but at least it's not as bad as previous reports.

    - K
     
  6. Khatsalano

    Khatsalano Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    Mojave and Lone Pine both 100+kW capable today.

    - K
     
  7. Tony8489

    Tony8489 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2015
    Messages:
    163
    I charged my S90D from 49 - 171 rated miles in half an hour on a paired charger at Burbank today.

    Burbank Service Center says no throttling complaints there since supercharger cables were replaced over a week ago.
     
  8. joebob73

    joebob73 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    Messages:
    69
    Location:
    Los Angeles Area
    Fountain Valley looked good today too. I was able to charge at normal rates from 35%-90% with the usual taper as the battery filled up. Looks like Tesla has resolved a lot of the issues.
     
  9. whttiger25

    whttiger25 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2016
    Messages:
    469
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    I was at Vacaville last evening and it was much better. 100-112kw from 26%-49%. Then it briefly dropped to 60kw but within a minute or two climbed back to 85kw, where it resumed the normal battery taper until I unplugged at 83% and 36kw.

    Still not sure about that drop at 49%, and I think my battery could have handled more than 85kw at 50% when it climbed back up, but overall my experience was a fast charge so I'm happy.
     
  10. ddimit

    ddimit Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    Sacramento, California, United States
    I hit Tejon Yesterday at noon 99 degrees no issue. Fresno at 3pm at 100 degrees was another issue entirely. Rolled in with 15 miles left and got throttled down to 80 amps on 3a. Moved to 4B throttled down to 110 amps. moved to 5b and held at 150 amps. No other cars on any of these pairs. Talked to X owner on 2b and he had the same issue max 110 amps.
     
  11. bxr140

    bxr140 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2014
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    1,462
    Location:
    Bay Area
    At the risk of sounding like a broken record, that's a false association. Burbank has been crap for months now. If it were as easy as swapping cables that would have happened long ago.
     
  12. HookBill

    HookBill Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    596
    Location:
    The OC, CA
    WOW. And Fresno is a new site with new equipment that really has not had time to degrade. Interesting.
     
  13. whttiger25

    whttiger25 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2016
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    I hope you called Tesla to report.
     
  14. Zextraterrestrial

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    4,030
    Location:
    Humboldt/Los Altos
    I probably have said otherwise in the past but I am pretty sure utilities are a big part of the 'throttling' and potentially too high of temps also(which may be related on some occasions). I have seen a few recent charges at ~60kW in 60F temps with no other cars.
     
  15. whttiger25

    whttiger25 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2016
    Messages:
    469
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    So I'm confused, your two statements above appear to contract each other. Why would utility related throttling apply in 60 degree temps with no other cars present? 120kw total shouldn't be a problem for utilities even in the most extreme conditions.
     
  16. Zextraterrestrial

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    4,030
    Location:
    Humboldt/Los Altos
    Not sure. Lots of grow lights in Humboldt?PG&E sucks?
    I need to go through my log book that I have been keeping since day 1. Currently on the road with no real computer. It would be nice to be able to see what the SCs see, - what the car is demanding and what the sc is outputting but this is one of those things they don't want to give us for whatever dumb reason. Motor temp and battery temp in and outs would be really nice too!
     
  17. TaoJones

    TaoJones Beyond Driven

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2014
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    3,016
    Location:
    The Americas
    After some variability in August, and with the exception of the usual slowness at Oxnads (and it was empty when I got there this past week), the last few charges at FH and RB have been at or near the customary 1%/minute. And I was the pair*er* 2 of those times.
     
  18. joebob73

    joebob73 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    Messages:
    69
    Location:
    Los Angeles Area
    I charged at Burbank today (charger 2B) and was getting 35kW at 40%. Normally it would be the 80kW-90kW range. I called the Supercharger support line and they said my car was fine and that there were reports of speed issues at Burbank recently. This was with the new handles.
     
  19. whttiger25

    whttiger25 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2016
    Messages:
    469
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    I had serious issues with 2a(35kw from 2%) when I was there August 15. Took me about 40 mins to get enough charge to limp into tejon
     
  20. apacheguy

    apacheguy S Sig #255

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    4,968
    Location:
    So Cal
    Well this is unfortunate. And here I was all excited to be skipping Buttonwillow and Harris by taking the 99. I'll be hitting Fresno on Friday. Tesla, you can expect my call if anything goes wrong. And please don't tell me it's the battery cooling like you did last time. I see the same vehicle data you see on your end and I know this is a bogus excuse.
     

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