Some exciting observations about the new Model S60 (software limited 75 kWh)

[Electroman]

Can someone clock (close to) 0 to 100% and post the elapsed time ?

 

[Zeromus-X]

Here is my charging speed at my local Supercharger on my 60D:
As I hit 100% I was still pulling 60 kw from the Supercharger.

Wow! I rarely go past about 250mi/h. I think the Vacaville supercharger is the slowest one out there.

 

[Pawilson3]

Hi, @joeytree, thanks for a replay, that's a huge amount of read though.

I think what you been told by that technician might be wrong. Here is the reason:

In the eye of your technician, a new software limited 60 kWh should work exactly the same with the old 60 kWh: Same battery capacity, totally dormant 15 kWh leftovers, which should conclude a same charging characteristics, right?

Let's debunk the myth.

When charging it's not the same:
Let's see how Tesla explain how supercharger doing with efficiency and time:

View attachment 186450
Thus we can concludes:
First 40 min is quickest, gives you 80% of total battery capacity. Let's call it stage 1
Last 35 min is slowest, only gives you 20% of battery capacity. Let's call it stage 2
That means stage 1 is 4x efficient thant stage 2.
Let's watch a real world S85 how to supercharge 100%:

Let me extract some screenshots:
one from stage 1 : Actual charging power 228a x 376v = 86.7 wh
View attachment 186456

This one from just jump from stage 1 to stage 2:
Actual charging power 98a x 398v = 39 wh
View attachment 186459


another one from stage 2:
Actual charging power 36a x 404v = 14.5 wh
View attachment 186457

And a screen capture from final stage 2:

Actual charging power 12a x 404v = 4.8 wh
View attachment 186449

From this real world data, I think you can conclude it's highly matching what Tesla explained in that charging graph.

Let's take a look at the real world charging on new 60 kWh:

Like I mentioned in the original post, mine is sharing a supercharger with another Tesla, so my top charging speed is cap around 60 kW, not 120 kW.


This is capture from stage 1:

Actual charging power 234a x 319v = 74.6 wh

View attachment 186458

This is capture from stage 1 jump to stage 2:

Actual charging power 175a x 348v = 60.9 wh

Notice the difference? it almost doesn't stop high speed at 80% mark!

View attachment 186451

This is capture from stage 2 final moment:

It's 98% charge, but still

Actual charging power 101a x 354v = 35.7 wh

View attachment 186452

Now let's think a little bit about the result:

The new S 60 charging speed doesn't dampen much around 80% mark, and still have high speed even with last 20% capacity.

The only reason it can do that, is because it's a 75 kWh battery in supercharger eye, when approaching software limited 60kWh mark, Supercharger still sees it as a 80% charge state of 75 kWh battery. So no huge charge speed penalty.

So I'd say the technician you quote might be wrong, the real world experience more towards better side.

This is a great summary and consistent with info I was given recently by an owner advisor.

 

[jelloslug]

This is a great summary and consistent with info I was given recently by an owner advisor.

I can say that my 60D does not taper as much as the 2013 85 that we have at work as it reaches 90 to 100%

 

[emir-t]

What about the usable energy of the 60?

Tesla usually limits packs to 95% DoD to prevent over discharge from the 'actual' capacity of the pack, not the marketed one. For example;

85 pack - 3,1Ah * 3,7V * 74S * 96P(16 modules in 6 group) = 81,4kWh --> 95% DoD = 77kWh. Consistent wth people's use.
Upgraded silicon anode 90 pack - 3,3Ah * 3,7V * 74S * 96P = 86,7kWh --> 95% DoD = 82,3kWh.
My guess for 75 --> 3,3Ah * 3,7V * 74S * 84P (14 modules in 6 groups) = 75,8kWh --> 95% DoD = 72kWh usable.

So if Tesla is limiting it actually 20%, usable energy should be about 57,5kWh. But it may be so that they limit usable energy to 60kWh, in that case 100% on a 60 would actually be 83%. I think usable energy is important because that is how I estimate my range. If I can get a realistic 320Wh/mi in a 60D, I'd actually get ~180mi range. To get 200 I'd need to average 287Wh/mi, not impossible but certainly not an everday occasion.

 

[Chopr147]

Alot of back and forth here on this issue. The consensus seems to be charging the 60 to 100% all the time will not do damage to the battery due to it being a 75. So you really get the full capacity out of your 60kwh making it an even better deal

 

[Cnasty]

Alot of back and forth here on this issue. The consensus seems to be charging the 60 to 100% all the time will not do damage to the battery due to it being a 75. So you really get the full capacity out of your 60kwh making it an even better deal

I'm still scared though as it is unproven and doubt we will ever see if there is a legit way to prove it.

I do go to 100% on a busy errand Saturday or of course trips but not daily as my commute is only about 35 miles round trip.

I do love the flexibility though and confirms the 60 is plenty for me and a hell of a lot of car for the price.

 

[MikeKFE]

Can someone clock (close to) 0 to 100% and post the elapsed time ?

I posted this a few weeks ago: Refreshed 60 Supercharging Info

 

[180r]

Wow! I rarely go past about 250mi/h. I think the Vacaville supercharger is the slowest one out there.

Yes, so many stalls with issues at Vacaville. I hope people keep calling issues in to Tesla when they experience unusual slow charging there.

 

[Electroman]

I posted this a few weeks ago: Refreshed 60 Supercharging Info

Thank you. Your data is from 24% to 100% with an unexplained dip in amps in the middle. So I am guessing a 0 to 100% with the expected ramp down of a 75kWh will take no more than 1 hour? Or even quicker maybe ?

 

[MikeKFE]

Thank you. Your data is from 24% to 100% with an unexplained dip in amps in the middle. So I am guessing a 0 to 100% with the expected ramp down of a 75kWh will take no more than 1 hour? Or even quicker maybe ?

TBD on the amps. I'm going to log the data again next time I SC. However I highly doubt that charging a 75 will be faster because why would it be?

 

[Pawilson3]

I posted this a few weeks ago: Refreshed 60 Supercharging Info

Thanks for taking the time to record the data and post! Looking forward to the next data set.

 

[MikeKFE]

Thanks for taking the time to record the data and post! Looking forward to the next data set.

She's in the shop this week so it'll probably be next Thursday before I can try again.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Why in the shop? How old is this car?

 

[MikeKFE]

Why in the shop? How old is this car?

Almost 60 days. On day 8 someone backed into the front bumper in my office parking lot...and then bolted. I'm getting her fixed and the bumper repainted. My heart still hurts.

 

[Alketi]

Does anyone have the 75kWh option yet? If so, can you report the pack voltage when charging to 100%?

This will be the key point in calculating whether or not Tesla has made any stealth upgrades to individual cell voltages. Really good to have this piece of data.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Almost 60 days. On day 8 someone backed into the front bumper in my office parking lot...and then bolted. I'm getting her fixed and the bumper repainted. My heart still hurts.

That's some horrible luck. I was worried it needed some mechanical repairs already.

 

[ggnykk]

I posted this a few weeks ago: Refreshed 60 Supercharging Info

So based on your data, 100% SOC is at 35 kw charge rate. So it basically confirm that refresh 60 kwh battery is a 75 kwh battery software limited at 80%.

But I must say that 35 kw at 100% soc seems a bit low though, while other people are reporting higher number.

 

[Xenius]

Do we need more data? I'd be happy to run my 60D down and hit up the Newark supercharger for some data. If this is still needed/wanted someone please quote me or @ me here and I'll schedule a time to do it.

 

[Ibrido]

Hi, I'm on my new Model S 60 for 4 days, and I've noticed some good bits about this new Model s60:

1. You can safely charge to 100% all the time, that confirmation is from the orientation session with Tesla technician.
That means for daily usage, normal Tesla car's follow a guideline of charge around 80-90% percentage for battery longevity. This won't pose such problem on new S60. because a full charge on new S60 is only 80% of full battery, that's exactly the same percentage follow Tesla's longevity recommendation.

For daily charge considering battery longevity range comparison:
S90 is charged with 80%-90% limit only provides 72 kWh - 81 kWh range.
old S70 is charged with 80%-90% limit only provides 56 kWh - 63 kWh range.
new S60 can always give you a full 60 kWh range.

2. I went to Supercharger twice, a documented charging time shows:

went with 16 Mi left, shared a superchager port with another Model X:

View attachment 185849

It started charging from 6:30pm, and fully charged on 7:29pm, so I'd say 1 hour is almost enough to get a full charge on S60, and 40 min will give you 80% for sure.

Tesla do need to update their app though, it still shows 1 hour and 40 minutes for full charge. on car it shows 1 hour and 20 minutes.

The amperage I see is varies from 180a to 244a which is lot better than old s60 which cap around 170a

View attachment 185838 View attachment 185839 View attachment 185841 View attachment 185843 View attachment 185842

So, it's a big plus for this new 75 kWh disguised 60: the charge time is matching with 90 kWh version.

Reading from previous report: Supercharging Tesla Model S 60 kWh Versus 85 kWh - Video + Graphs

The old S60 is a lot slower. The new S60 battery is smaller but will get your cars full charge quicker. S90 does come with bigger battery, but it will need 1 hour and half to get a fully charge, and you can drive to your next supercharger half hour faster, so no time lose here.

3. It shows 60 kWh in all places in car, but you can access unlock 75 kWh online in Tesla website if you need and have money to spare later:


View attachment 185836

4, I haven't tried wall charger yet, but 48a in a single charger configuration is well suited for the S60, you don't really need a dual charger 72a upgrade for it. for comparison, the old charger is 40a, and dual charger provides up to 80a it's already fast enough with single charger.

Hope this can help you to decide~

Battery capacity is 75kWh so charging 60kWh to 100% is anyways not charging to 100%, safe. You will not be able to charge to 100% if you upgrade to 75kWh !!