Someone unplugged my car

[McRat]

I removed a post. Out of line, my apologies.

But the crux of the post was in line with Tesla Motors policy when it comes to overnight parking at urban chargers by residents.

I agree with Tesla's policy. I will admit to being surprised by the number who think Tesla is wrong about this.

 

[McRat]

Somebody unplugged the OP's car, while it was charging (which is wrong) bu there must be more to it, because wrong-doers always have a good reason for doing wrong to the people to whom they do wrong.

I edited that. And I apologize.

The video did not appear to be the actions of a vandal.

 

[McRat]

As already mentioned subsequently, if this is your stance, why are you limiting it to Teslas? Why not apply that "rule" to any EV?

Also, foillowing that logic, if an ICE vehicle can't gas up at home, should they not buy it if they have several different gas stations thye might be able to use based on circumstance and convenience?

There are EVs that have L2 as their 'fast charging', and a range so short that L2s can allow for EV trips that would otherwise be impossible.

I learned this ~5 years ago when I saw an L2 at Kohl's (a dept store?) and a new Fiat 500e owner sitting in their car charging in the AM. I stopped by and had a chat with him. In order for him to reach a destination in the next city over, he needed 90 minutes of charge to make the round trip. I thought that was cool. Luckily there were no houses that close, or that option might be off-the-table for him. This was in 2013.

There are probably 50% more EVs now, and I haven't visited that shopping center in a long time. I wonder if it's still part of the EV highway? Or is it now somebody's way to cut their electric bill at home.

Remote charging allows inexpensive EVs to be used like ICE cars if you have the patience. A 50 mile destination is nothing to 1/2 of the EV owners. For others, it requires some L2 to allow the EV to be used.

And isn't that the entire point of the Supercharging network? To be able to stretch the range of EVs? The first $15,000 EVs to be sold at a profit will not be 200mi EVs. They will be 80mi class.

 

[McRat]

Note: I personally would not acquire any 80mi EVs. Insufficient infrastructure in urban areas to allow for redundancy. And I don't agree with unplugging cars.

There will be a battle waged between utilities and businesses/public buildings when it comes to L2 Free charging. The utilities already fired their first shot with Demand Metering which is a 24hr cycle split into 0h15m segments and judged for an entire 365 day cycle. For every 6.6kW L2 in our area, the utility charges >$100 'tax' + $30/day meter fees. This could be why you see so many Twin L2's with one L2 that is disabled with no apparent breakage. Cost cutting. It's not the power used, it's naturally high amps of an EVSE that is the battleground.

EV charging will be a cash cow for the utilities, many of whom are monopolies controlled by ex-utility managers working for the government.

We are in the process of shooting ourselves in the foot when it comes to EV adoption. We will still walk, just at slower rate.

 

[McRat]

Research. It appears to be a 2 hr limit for charging. Why a car would be parked there at 3:36am Sunday AM unoccupied?

 

[McRat]

@Astraviel - Let us know how "A Chinese man with glasses wearing an orange coat unplugged my car while I was charging. I will be sending this dashcam video off to the authorities. Do not touch my car." works for you.

You should probably avoid telling them you park there overnight in a 2hr max stall.

 

[demundus]

As already mentioned subsequently, if this is your stance, why are you limiting it to Teslas? Why not apply that "rule" to any EV?

Also, foillowing that logic, if an ICE vehicle can't gas up at home, should they not buy it if they have several different gas stations thye might be able to use based on circumstance and convenience?

I agree on the overall "rule"

To address your strawman, no... because a gas station doesnt have one pump and it doesnt take 2 hours to fill up, and you pay for it (in some cases these EVSE are free, and in the case of an SC they are also free... but more akin to a gas station in your example.)

 

[demundus]

Unpopular? Yep. This line of thinking is exactly why there are idiots unplugging Teslas. The whole notion of expensive Teslas and their owners being able to afford charging at home is absurd. I do have an HPWC at home, BUT, if I chose to forego that and charge everyday at work or at public EVSEs, don’t make ass-umptions on my need/want to charge. Majority of Teslas charge at home so for those that have to use public chargers, it’s usually out of need, not “greed”.

Who said anything about afford or cost, or even strictly a Tesla. If you buy a vehicle that needs to charge, why would you rely on a thin-stretched-stressed public infrastructure to help you limp along? Install a charger in your home, charge to the amount you need, and use the public chargers when required. I use them, all the time, on trips and sometimes at work when the errands/weekend dictates I'll need a little more juice... but parking my car at a public charger, going to sleep, and hoping that works out in the long run seems foolish and abusive and gives EV owners a bad name. (and does not set us up for arguing the EXPANSION of the network in the future)

EDIT: This goes for NGV, Biodiesel, Corn-fuel, and any other specialty crap you put in a car to make it go. If the gov't/business/private individual was gracious enough to set up a free or reduced public service, why would you completely abuse it because your situation dictates that you "need" it?

There is mutual respect required here

 

[Doug_G]

No one is more entitled to a charge than anyone else. First come, first served. Don't block a charger by parking in an EV spot and not plugging in. Don't stay plugged in after finishing charging if at all avoidable (finished charging at 5 am is a good exception).

If we start making "priority lists" for whatever EV is more deserving than another, then why should a Volt ever be allowed to plug in to a public EVSE? They're not going to be dead on the side of the road if they run out of charge. But if we want to encourage movement to sustainable energy it is important that they be able to charge.

Unplugging someone is at best going to annoy them, and at worst leave them stranded with no way to get home. "ICEing" a charger with an EV is no different - someone may not be able to get home because of your inconsiderate actions. How would you feel in that situation?

We all need to share the limited public charging resources that are available at this time. Believe it or not, it's way better than it used to be. But there are going to be ongoing growing pains until EVs are in the majority. Do your bit, play nice, and be respectful of others.

 

[scaesare]

There are EVs that have L2 as their 'fast charging', and a range so short that L2s can allow for EV trips that would otherwise be impossible.

I learned this ~5 years ago when I saw an L2 at Kohl's (a dept store?) and a new Fiat 500e owner sitting in their car charging in the AM. I stopped by and had a chat with him. In order for him to reach a destination in the next city over, he needed 90 minutes of charge to make the round trip. I thought that was cool. Luckily there were no houses that close, or that option might be off-the-table for him. This was in 2013.

There are probably 50% more EVs now, and I haven't visited that shopping center in a long time. I wonder if it's still part of the EV highway? Or is it now somebody's way to cut their electric bill at home.

Remote charging allows inexpensive EVs to be used like ICE cars if you have the patience. A 50 mile destination is nothing to 1/2 of the EV owners. For others, it requires some L2 to allow the EV to be used.

And isn't that the entire point of the Supercharging network? To be able to stretch the range of EVs? The first $15,000 EVs to be sold at a profit will not be 200mi EVs. They will be 80mi class.

You posted this as a response to the questions I asked... but I'm not sure I understand how it addresses them.

 

[scaesare]

I agree on the overall "rule"

To address your strawman, no... because a gas station doesnt have one pump and it doesnt take 2 hours to fill up, and you pay for it (in some cases these EVSE are free, and in the case of an SC they are also free... but more akin to a gas station in your example.)

So you question buying an EV if you cannot "secure your own personal method of charging". This implies that anybody who lives in an apartment, condo, etc... should not buy an EV.

The point of my gas station illustration is that the OP does have a method (albeit not "personal") of charging available to him. It's a Supercharger that he said was 30 minutes South. He said he had 19% left, which for a 100D means he had not allowed his car to get below the point necessary were he couldn't make it to charge up.

No different than the person who lives 25 miles from the nearest gas station making sure they don't get below 1/8 of a tank so they can make sure to get there to fuel back up.

In this case, however, the OP also had the additional option of an L2 available to him that is often available at night. So he chose to use it to avoid the longer trip. Had that L2 not been avaialable to him, then no doubt the Supercharger would have been his recourse.

To suggest that it's somehow irresponsible to have bought a Tesla when he knows he can rely in the supercharger in all cases, and perhaps use a local L2 in a subset of cases, seems a stretch to me.

 

[demundus]

So you question buying an EV if you cannot "secure your own personal method of charging". This implies that anybody who lives in an apartment, condo, etc... should not buy an EV.

The point of my gas station illustration is that the OP does have a method (albeit not "personal") of charging available to him. It's a Supercharger that he said was 30 minutes South. He said he had 19% left, which for a 100D means he had not allowed his car to get below the point necessary were he couldn't make it to charge up.

No different than the person who lives 25 miles from the nearest gas station making sure they don't get below 1/8 of a tank so they can make sure to get there to fuel back up.

In this case, however, the OP also had the additional option of an L2 available to him that is often available at night. So he chose to use it to avoid the longer trip. Had that L2 not been avaialable to him, then no doubt the Supercharger would have been his recourse.

To suggest that it's somehow irresponsible to have bought a Tesla when he knows he can rely in the supercharger in all cases, and perhaps use a local L2 in a subset of cases, seems a stretch to me.

I think I generally agree with you... what rubs me is that he (and others, if we're being general) leave it overnight. And i think to compound that further L2 spots are universal for a wide range of vehicles, where a SC is not... AND they generally only have a few stalls. Its just a giant combination of poor circumstance.

Anecdotally, there is a charger at a brewery we like to go to. I plug in there even though i have over 200 miles of range left. There are only two stalls, almost always the other one is empty. I don't really feel too bad about it because I'll be there for the same amount of time as everyone else. If I left my car there all day (there were reports of this at the brewery, they mulled removing the chargers because of abuse), then by all means, flame the hell out of me... thats rude and abusive of what should be a great introduction to a good business practice in our "day and age" of EVs.

 

[Doanster1]

Who said anything about afford or cost, or even strictly a Tesla.
There is mutual respect required here

Ummm, you did? “Why buy a Tesla...”
Again, OP is not a repeat/habitual “offender” (in your eyes) and does not have the ability to charge on anything other than 110V “at home”. I’d imagine anyone who lives in high rise apartments/homes are in the same predicament.

I absolutely am with you regarding your last statement, but will never condone nor make excuses for anyone who disconnects another. You just do not know the situation and/or circumstances.

 

[demundus]

Ummm, you did? “Why buy a Tesla...”
Again, OP is not a repeat/habitual “offender” (in your eyes) and does not have the ability to charge on anything other than 110V “at home”. I’d imagine anyone who lives in high rise apartments/homes are in the same predicament.

I absolutely am with you regarding your last statement, but will never condone nor make excuses for anyone who disconnects another. You just do not know the situation and/or circumstances.

Then we're both in agreement, no matter the circumstance don't unplug anyone elses car (to this i 100% agree). But if you come across someone who is abusing the resource, then a hard talk should be had... and perhaps now we're digging a bit at that person's personal situation, but a spade is a spade... you bought an electric car without a way to reliably and regularly charge it.

 

[McRat]

You posted this as a response to the questions I asked... but I'm not sure I understand how it addresses them.

To clarify - You should avoid a car with 200 miles of range in Deadhorse, Alaska since the next closest gas station is 256 miles away. That's a record for the US IIRC. You could use gas cans though. I keep about 15 gallons, 10 diesel, 5 gas for emergencies and diagnostics.

You should not rely on publicly funded Free chargers when planning an EV purchase. There is no guarantee it will work, or be removed. And it can switch to pay-mode and be more than gas. You lose one of the biggest advantages of EV ownership. You wake with a full tank.

Gas stations are not like the EV charging grid:

• Gas stations have nearly 100% coverage of North America (and many other continents).
• Gas cans allow you to stretch range on gas vehicles.
• Running out of gas is not a tow truck issue.
• Unanticipated headwinds, temperatures, and other problems rarely affect gas cars. They can be tow truck issues in EVs, especially short range cars even in urban settings.
• 6-12 cars an hour can fuel at a single pump gas station. Most have min of 4 pumps though. One island, two pumps per island. Obviously most have far more.
• It's hard to get somebody to fuel your car at home while you sleep.
• There is no free gas.

Did I skip something?

 

[scaesare]

I think I generally agree with you... what rubs me is that he (and others, if we're being general) leave it overnight. And i think to compound that further L2 spots are universal for a wide range of vehicles, where a SC is not... AND they generally only have a few stalls. Its just a giant combination of poor circumstance.

Anecdotally, there is a charger at a brewery we like to go to. I plug in there even though i have over 200 miles of range left. There are only two stalls, almost always the other one is empty. I don't really feel too bad about it because I'll be there for the same amount of time as everyone else. If I left my car there all day (there were reports of this at the brewery, they mulled removing the chargers because of abuse), then by all means, flame the hell out of me... thats rude and abusive of what should be a great introduction to a good business practice in our "day and age" of EVs.

I don't think anybody here is making the case that tying up a charger beyond what you reasonably need (or is allowed, as @McRat has suggested there's a 2 hour limit) is appropriate. I certainly am not.

But I also am not sure I saw that the OP specifically speak to if he was doing that. I see that he was parked there late at night.

But "playing nice" by sharing limited resource chargers is different than saying that one shouldn't buy an EV if they don't have personal charging available. Maybe they have work charging. Or are willing to visit and pay for supercharging once a week. Etc...

 

[scaesare]

To clarify - You should avoid a car with 200 miles of range in Deadhorse, Alaska since the next closest gas station is 256 miles away. That's a record for the US IIRC. You could use gas cans though. I keep about 15 gallons, 10 diesel, 5 gas for emergencies and diagnostics.

You should not rely on publicly funded Free chargers when planning an EV purchase. There is no guarantee it will work, or be removed. And it can switch to pay-mode and be more than gas. You lose one of the biggest advantages of EV ownership. You wake with a full tank.

Gas stations are not like the EV charging grid:

• Gas stations have nearly 100% coverage of North America (and many other continents).
• Gas cans allow you to stretch range on gas vehicles.
• Running out of gas is not a tow truck issue.
• Unanticipated headwinds, temperatures, and other problems rarely affect gas cars. They can be tow truck issues in EVs, especially short range cars even in urban settings.
• 6-12 cars an hour can fuel at a single pump gas station. Most have min of 4 pumps though. One island, two pumps per island. Obviously most have far more.
• It's hard to get somebody to fuel your car at home while you sleep.
• There is no free gas.

Did I skip something?

I tend to agree with most of the above.

I guess I'm not sure it speaks at all to my first question:

"..if this is your stance (don't buy a Tesla if you don't have personal charging), why are you limiting it to Teslas? Why not apply that "rule" to any EV?"

It seems like all of the above indeed applies to any EV.

And my second question was:

"Also, following that logic, if an ICE vehicle can't gas up at home, should they not buy it if they have several different gas stations they might be able to use based on circumstance and convenience?"

Nowhere did that analogous example suggest that an EV buyer without personal charging at home should rely on "publicly funded Free chargers". In fact the OP specifically mentions a Supercharger as one of his options. And there are many places where Pay-to-Play L2 chargers are available. Or a person may have non-public charging at their place of employment.


While you are certainly correct that there are many difference that make relying on "non-personal" chargers something you have to manage more carefully, the fact is that people driving ICE cars today also rely on external fueling stations.

So my point to the other poster of whom I was asking the questions is that a blanket rule stating you shouldn't buy a Tesla/EV unless you have personal charging seems a bit much, as long as the EV owner is willing to take on the burden of more carefully planning and managing his charging requirements.

 

[Need]

Thinking out of the box on why the guy did that:

1) It is raining, and he is wearing glasses with rain drops on them, so he can't see very clearly. He just got out from a overnight shift and went straight to where he usually park his EV. Out of habit, just unplug it from the car and then realized oh that's not my car. Oops.

2) The guy works for Blackvue. He is the head of advertising. How many of you watched the video and think, oh I should get a front and rear dash cams! Look at the wide angle and the perfect capture of the get away car! This video is going viral and Blackvue will be flying off the shelves!

 

[ai4px]

There will be a battle waged between utilities and businesses/public buildings when it comes to L2 Free charging. The utilities already fired their first shot with Demand Metering which is a 24hr cycle split into 0h15m segments and judged for an entire 365 day cycle. For every 6.6kW L2 in our area, the utility charges >$100 'tax' + $30/day meter fees. This could be why you see so many Twin L2's with one L2 that is disabled with no apparent breakage. Cost cutting. It's not the power used, it's naturally high amps of an EVSE that is the battleground.

It seems to me that any business wanting to appear EV friendly could just set the charge limit artifically low to 8 or 16 amps.

 

[Darren Donovan]

The charging infrastructure is woefully inadequate for the number of EVs on the market at this time, let alone the many, many more EVs being released into the wild daily. We'll see more and more examples like this.