Someone's X prepping for delivery at Denver "secret location"

[jsollender]

No, I didn't say anything even remotely like 'the owner will never park their car in a parking lot'. I have no idea how you interpreted my words that way. Nor am I parroting some party line. Some people like to wait to open their presents on Christmas morning. Others don't care. Neither is wrong. But I wouldn't tell either to change.

Not my car, so I won't tell the owner how they should feel. That's all I'm saying. I totally understand that YOU want to see an X. I don't blame you. But demanding to see someone else's car before they take delivery, not Tesla's car, is not something that you or I have a right to do (imo, clearly many disagree with that). That's up to the owner to decide. That is all I'm saying. Their right to decide. It has nothing to do with if you'd mind or not.

So Bonnie, what happens if you were promised a present Christmas morning only to be told your present is still being made, or we have to make a few tweaks to it before you get to unwrap it? You'd be disappointed.
How many disappointed reservists are out there with failed promises for delivery on a certain month? Or even a certain year for that matter????
Wouldn't you like to know how the tweaks are going for your delayed Christmas present? Would you like a real answer with factual basis for the answer rather than Santa saying it's still at the North Pole workshop instead of it actually being right by your house being readied for you? Would you also like to know which of the 2 VINs had a nice scratch on the drivers door from transport? I would.
I appreciate the discourse. I do not like the blind lack of any useful info from the DS personnel. I am not alone in this either. A shred of useful information is of whatever benefit you want from it. It is public. Just like a parking lot of a grocery store. If you want your X on your private island, go right ahead. I think it silly to withhold public information. If I see information I think someone might want, and it is not illegal, I'll post it. I clearly see 2 sides of this discussion, but I am on the side of transparency, rather than secrecy.

 

[bonnie]

So Bonnie, what happens if you were promised a present Christmas morning only to be told your present is still being made, or we have to make a few tweaks to it before you get to unwrap it? You'd be disappointed.
How many disappointed reservists are out there with failed promises for delivery on a certain month? Or even a certain year for that matter????
Wouldn't you like to know how the tweaks are going for your delayed Christmas present? Would you like a real answer with factual basis for the answer rather than Santa saying it's still at the North Pole workshop instead of it actually being right by your house being readied for you? Would you also like to know which of the 2 VINs had a nice scratch on the drivers door from transport? I would.
I appreciate the discourse. I do not like the blind lack of any useful info from the DS personnel. I am not alone in this either. A shred of useful information is of whatever benefit you want from it. It is public. Just like a parking lot of a grocery store. If you want your X on your private island, go right ahead. I think it silly to withhold public information. If I see information I think someone might want, and it is not illegal, I'll post it. I clearly see 2 sides of this discussion, but I am on the side of transparency, rather than secrecy.

If you read through my responses, you will see a consistent message of 'I understand you want more information'. Your fight is not with me. You're clearly upset with Tesla and (imo) you're confusing that with a right to look at any X you want, regardless of who it belongs to.

Regarding your Christmas present analogy and what if more tweaks had to be done ... it would not in any way give me the right to go look at someone else's yet-to-be delivered Christmas present. Why? Because it's not mine. If the store had one (which they don't, and that's your beef), I certainly have a right to look there. But I don't have a right to look at one that belongs to someone else.

And btw, I waited far longer than you for an X. So please, no lectures on 'what if you had to wait and had no information'. Looks like almost 4x longer, without even one hissy fit along the way.

 

[wk057]

If you read through my responses, you will see a consistent message of 'I understand you want more information'. Your fight is not with me. You're clearly upset with Tesla and (imo) you're confusing that with a right to look at any X you want, regardless of who it belongs to.

Regarding your Christmas present analogy and what if more tweaks had to be done ... it would not in any way give me the right to go look at someone else's yet-to-be delivered Christmas present. Why? Because it's not mine. If the store had one (which they don't, and that's your beef), I certainly have a right to look there. But I don't have a right to look at one that belongs to someone else.

And btw, I waited far longer than you for an X. So please, no lectures on 'what if you had to wait and had no information'.

Seems to be some confusion over the definitions of "see" and "look at." To me, these words in context here mean "visually." Certainly no one here thinks it's acceptable to go to a customer's undelivered car, hop in the the thing, open the doors, poke it, whatever, without the owner present..... at least I certainly hope not. I don't think there is any debate on this point.

What I think is silly is that if the car is in plain view, and I'm not breaking any laws, like trespassing, to be near it or whatever, then I don't see the issue with visually checking it out, taking photos, whatever. If the VIN is visible, so be it.

For example, the first X I ever saw in person was an undelivered customer car at the Syosset, NY service center. It was parked in the parking lot with the rest of the Model S that were either inventory, CPO, or undelivered customer cars right across from the supercharger there. Now you and others seem to be arguing that I had no right to walk 15' to check out this car that was parked in an open-to-the-public parking lot? No signs or anything of the sort saying that people weren't allowed near it or anything. I think we'd have to agree to disagree if anyone thinks this was unacceptable. If I had gone around touching it or trying to open it, that'd have been unacceptable, for sure. But snapping a few photos of it and posting them... really? The VIN wasn't covered, and was clearly visible, as it should be. Edit: The only reason I know it was an undelivered customer car is because one of the sales guys there volunteered that info when I asked if they had a floor model of the X yet.

If Tesla didn't want people to see the car, it should be parked somewhere that customers aren't allowed and/or covered.

 

[bonnie]

Seems to be some confusion over the definitions of "see" and "look at." To me, these words in context here mean "visually." Certainly no one here thinks it's acceptable to go to a customer's undelivered car, hop in the the thing, open the doors, poke it, whatever, without the owner present..... at least I certainly hope not. I don't think there is any debate on this point.

What I think is silly is that if the car is in plain view, and I'm not breaking any laws, like trespassing, to be near it or whatever, then I don't see the issue with visually checking it out, taking photos, whatever. If the VIN is visible, so be it.

For example, the first X I ever saw in person was an undelivered customer car at the Syosset, NY service center. It was parked in the parking lot with the rest of the Model S that were either inventory, CPO, or undelivered customer cars right across from the supercharger there. Now you and others seem to be arguing that I had no right to walk 15' to check out this car that was parked in an open-to-the-public parking lot? No signs or anything of the sort saying that people weren't allowed near it or anything. I think we'd have to agree to disagree if anyone thinks this was unacceptable. If I had gone around touching it or trying to open it, that'd have been unacceptable, for sure. But snapping a few photos of it and posting them... really? The VIN wasn't covered, and was clearly visible, as it should be. Edit: The only reason I know it was an undelivered customer car is because one of the sales guys there volunteered that info when I asked if they had a floor model of the X yet.

If Tesla didn't want people to see the car, it should be parked somewhere that customers aren't allowed and/or covered.

Let's just stick to the actual real-life scenarios under discussion before blowing it up into a million different directions . Would you agree that if it were inside the Service Center, where customers are not allowed, and they asked you to not go look - that you shouldn't? (And I don't know about your SC, but here, the fenced area says 'Only authorized service personnel beyond this point'.)

Not going back down this rabbit hole again of what is legal vs. what isn't - we've had this discussion. It's about respecting a new owner. We did have one very clear example of a new owner not happy about how they were informed (via overly enthusiastic forum). All I've asked for is respecting that. And everyone seems intent to make it into some bigger issue.

 

[wk057]

Let's just stick to the actual real-life scenarios under discussion before blowing it up into a million different directions . Would you agree that if it were inside the Service Center, where customers are not allowed, and they asked you to not go look - that you shouldn't? (And I don't know about your SC, but here, the fenced area says 'Only authorized service personnel beyond this point'.)

Not going back down this rabbit hole again of what is legal vs. what isn't - we've had this discussion. It's about respecting a new owner. We did have one very clear example of a new owner not happy about how they were informed (via overly enthusiastic forum). All I've asked for is respecting that. And everyone seems intent to make it into some bigger issue.

I kind of figured my actual experience was a real life scenario, but I guess I could have been hallucinating. lol.

If the car is in a service center where customers are not allowed, and I'm in/near the service center where customers are allowed, and I can visually see the car from there........ well, that's Tesla's fault. Certainly someone shouldn't just go over to a car in an area they're not supposed to be. That would obviously be crossing the line.

But if the car is in a publicly visible area, or publicly accessible area... *shrugs* I really don't see the issue.

Just seems like there are much more important things for X owners to be upset about other than someone seeing their car before them (which is ridiculous to me on so many levels... the car wasn't made completely by machines, you know)... like, oh I don't know... the three year wait with basically no communication?

 

[bonnie]

I kind of figured my actual experience was a real life scenario, but I guess I could have been hallucinating. lol.

If the car is in a service center where customers are not allowed, and I'm in/near the service center where customers are allowed, and I can visually see the car from there........ well, that's Tesla's fault. Certainly someone shouldn't just go over to a car in an area they're not supposed to be. That would obviously be crossing the line.

But if the car is in a publicly visible area, or publicly accessible area... *shrugs* I really don't see the issue.

Just seems like there are much more important things for X owners to be upset about other than someone seeing their car before them (which is ridiculous to me on so many levels... the car wasn't made completely by machines, you know)... like, oh I don't know... the three year wait with basically no communication?

I said 'the real life scenarios under discussion'. LOL. But sure, make it about something else. LOL.

Do I think there are better things to be upset about? Sure. So what. It's not my car.

 

[wk057]

I said 'the real life scenarios under discussion'. LOL. But sure, make it about something else. LOL.

Do I think there are better things to be upset about? Sure. So what. It's not my car.

I must have missed something. Pretty sure the discussion turned to ethics around posting about undelivered vehicles and undelivered VINs at some point, which was what was 'under discussion'. But whatever, I'll get back to my regularly scheduled technical postings. At least we agree there are more important things to be worried about.

 

[beeeerock]

And here I thought the X was a car, not an alien ship hidden away somewhere in Area 51... 'X' equals 'X-Files'?

My mistake.

 

[jsollender]

agree with all that posting of publicly visible findings is legit. The cars are were being offloaded behind an old supermarket. No fences, no restriction, no signage, nada. Isn't is part of our country that discourse and disagreement are allowed? You have a right to disagree with me, and what a great land that we can disagree without resorting to shooting each other. I see nothing wrong here, but disagree with the "other" side. I also believe we have the right to voice our displeasure with delays. I haven't hissy fitted yet, as my order is for a mere 90D and mid-2016 is still looking pretty sweet for me. I feel bad for those ahead of me who hissy fitted about delays, but I don't believe I am in the same boat as they are. Go check my posts. I don't believe I'm a whiner on this forum.
Check please!

 

[socalsam]

Whats lost in this discussion is the fact they are unloading the cars at a secret location behind an old supermarket. The irony of that just cracks me up.

 

[flankspeed8]

Hi Jsollender- If this was my car that was being prepped and you were able to give me information on it, I would be appreciative and not upset. This whole secrecy thing from Tesla is so perplexing. No information, no timelines, no schedules. Its bizarre. If we were in October or November and people were asking about secrecy, I would understand more. Its March. a handful of cars have been delivered and thousands of owners are in the dark as to what is going on. I for one appreciate your update. Ready for my new oriface as well.

+1. But this has become the Tesla way and quite honestly am surprised at how many people happily put up with the secrecy and lack of communication. There is nothing secret about vins. In fact, cars.com posts vin numbers for the whole world to see before cars are even delivered to the local dealership, including pre-sales, of course Tesla excluded :tongue:. Knowledge is good.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, it does make sense. You just don't like the answer. It's not your vehicle to see, period, end of story. That's the decision of the owner, who is not you. Maybe ordering a car sight unseen doesn't fit your personality type.

In the interest of Tesla security (and apparently all the ghastly consequences that come from seeing these cars) they should drape all vehicles with the big red sheet that they use for some deliveries so no one can get a glimpse of....ohhhh gasp.....a production vehicle that has been supposedly shipping for 5 months. Its not like he asked to get in and kick back and fire up the bio-defense system. I am sorry, but I am really have a hard time understanding the reactions here. It's a car, not a nuclear weapon.

- - - Updated - - -

And btw, I waited far longer than you for an X. So please, no lectures on 'what if you had to wait and had no information'. Looks like almost 4x longer, without even one hissy fit along the way.

wow....just wow. So basically since you didn't go through what I had to, you have no right to complain or be critical?

 

[bonnie]

wow....just wow. So basically since you didn't go through what I had to, you have no right to complain or be critical?

Since you seem to have missed the quote I was directly responding to, I repost it here. And I'll assume you just missed it. Because I wouldn't want to think you were deliberately twisting what I said to be telling someone they had no right to complain or be critical. To be absolutely crystal clear, so that there is zero misunderstanding, I was responding to the question of 'how would you feel IF', by pointing out I know exactly how I'd feel because I dealt with far more. So not even a question as to how I'd feel. Hope that helps you understand. (I've added the bolding to help.)

So Bonnie, what happens if you were promised a present Christmas morning only to be told your present is still being made, or we have to make a few tweaks to it before you get to unwrap it? You'd be disappointed.
How many disappointed reservists are out there with failed promises for delivery on a certain month? Or even a certain year for that matter????
Wouldn't you like to know how the tweaks are going for your delayed Christmas present? Would you like a real answer with factual basis for the answer rather than Santa saying it's still at the North Pole workshop instead of it actually being right by your house being readied for you? Would you also like to know which of the 2 VINs had a nice scratch on the drivers door from transport? I would.
I appreciate the discourse. I do not like the blind lack of any useful info from the DS personnel. I am not alone in this either. A shred of useful information is of whatever benefit you want from it. It is public. Just like a parking lot of a grocery store. If you want your X on your private island, go right ahead. I think it silly to withhold public information. If I see information I think someone might want, and it is not illegal, I'll post it. I clearly see 2 sides of this discussion, but I am on the side of transparency, rather than secrecy.

If you read through my responses, you will see a consistent message of 'I understand you want more information'. Your fight is not with me. You're clearly upset with Tesla and (imo) you're confusing that with a right to look at any X you want, regardless of who it belongs to.

Regarding your Christmas present analogy and what if more tweaks had to be done ... it would not in any way give me the right to go look at someone else's yet-to-be delivered Christmas present. Why? Because it's not mine. If the store had one (which they don't, and that's your beef), I certainly have a right to look there. But I don't have a right to look at one that belongs to someone else.

And btw, I waited far longer than you for an X. So please, no lectures on 'what if you had to wait and had no information'. Looks like almost 4x longer, without even one hissy fit along the way.