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Sonnen battery

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by Ulmo, Mar 6, 2016.

  1. Ulmo

    Ulmo Member

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    #1 Ulmo, Mar 6, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2016
    Sonnen battery is competitor to Tesla battery, and is already shipping. Local manufacturing is in San Jose, as opposed to somewhere out in the desert. A lot less vaporware and a lot more getting it done. Let's hope they both do well.

    Sonnen ships its 10,000 solar battery: pv-magazine

    Sonnenbatterie beats Tesla to the punch with US roll-out: pv-magazine

    Sonnen announces partnerships for a more full energy storage offering: pv-magazine

    Energy storage is now: New video interviews with Sonnen USA: pv-magazine

    In the videos, they say they offer all the real world uses, as opposed to a lot of other battery companies that give out incomplete ideas, and whose product designs don't even seem to be designed and marketed fully for all the real world uses. This speaks volumes to me.
     
  2. Gerardf

    Gerardf Active Member

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    After some googling on their pricing :

    Customers wishing to buy just the battery and control software to attach to an existing PV system will be able to do so for a starting price of €3,599 ($3,830), including VAT.
    This compares to a price of €3,035 ($3,234) for a 7-kilowatt-hour Tesla Powerwall in Germany, Austria and Switzerland. However, the Powerwall price does not include VAT. VAT would take the price up to around €3,612 ($3,848)

    Roughly same price for 2 kWh as Tesla offers for a 7 kWh system. From a TSLA shareholders point of view not really a tough competitor. They seem to source from Sony.
     
  3. Ulmo

    Ulmo Member

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    The Sonnen is sold with integrated inverter, complete software controller, and circuit breaker. I believe PowerWall only has battery. I'd have to go back and check to see if it has any type of breaker. But it doesn't have inverter, and so I doubt it has the software controller. The Sonnen includes a greater proportion of the system than the PowerWall.

    I'd have to see integrated system comparisons to know for sure. From my point of view, the Sonnen solution is more mature, despite being less outwardly frugal. One is an actual system, and the other is an idea in current development with maybe a couple of foreign paid alpha site testers with limited capabilities.

    I have a feeling system implementors will use enough Sonnen to give Tesla competitive pressure to get up to the same maturity level and succeed in their own right. For now, I find it an interesting market point.

    I'm going to try to find examples of both installed. So far, I haven't had luck.
     
  4. Gerardf

    Gerardf Active Member

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    Correct, and I was aware of that, so I searched a bit further to find pricing for just the battery (see my post above).
     
  5. chickensevil

    chickensevil Active Member

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    Powerwall includes a DC-DC inverter with the intent of tying in with a solar system. The expectation is that you would have already bought a DC-AC inverter as part of the solar array and therefore don't need it. This, as far as I understand, is the only piece not included in the powerwall price. If you were just going to add a powerwall to your house without a solar array then you would have to pay extra for this part.

    what residential uses do you have for a pack that does NOT include solar with it? I would guess only those looking for an option should the power go out in the home, such a system would have other, unlisted expenses as well since you would need a way to tie in to the grid that can also be switched over to standalone. Most solar setups go dead if the power to the grid is lost.
     
  6. schonelucht

    schonelucht Active Member

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    The wording is vague enough that it is unclear if it really is just the battery without the inverter though. Can you post the full link? The reason I think it still does include an inverter is because that price (4k) is the typical price for an inverter + 2kWh battery availabe in Germany. For example here is another example at 3979.5EUR. An equivalent inverter is 1119 EUR which leaves the price of the battery at roughly 2850EUR or 2400EUR without sales tax.

    I really think we should accept that for the foreseeable future, Tesla Energy is not a consumer oriented business. They nominally have a PowerWall product for us but as long as I can't simple go to a webshop, order it and have it shipping within a number of days it just as well might not exist.
     
  7. schonelucht

    schonelucht Active Member

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    Thanks. The full text makes it clear it is without inverter. I think we can safely assume that the Sonnenbatterie is not competing on price since it is more expensive than a product that is already shipping and likely also more expensive than a Powerwall once they effectively start shipping.
     

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