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Sound Deadening Model 3
- Thread starter fly2damoon
- Start date
Thank you to all of you posted what you’ve done to soundproof your model 3. I started to add some Dynamat Extreme yesterday to front wheel wells and panels. They make the front more damping and sound warmth. Definitely quieter I hear road noise from windows now.
Some photos of where I applied Dynamat. I’m going to add more Dynamat Extreme to the doors panels, cabin floor and trunk. I also bought Dynapad for cabin floor and trunk. Thank you
Some photos of where I applied Dynamat. I’m going to add more Dynamat Extreme to the doors panels, cabin floor and trunk. I also bought Dynapad for cabin floor and trunk. Thank you
Attachments
Just saw this Tweet: Treelon on Twitter
Elon says cabin noise is 'significantly improved in current production.' Has anyone done a tear down of a recent Model 3?
Elon says cabin noise is 'significantly improved in current production.' Has anyone done a tear down of a recent Model 3?
Updated
I continued to add Dynamat to trunk, rear speaker shelf, and interior cabin floor. I didn't install Dynapad because it was heavy and smell. Result: my car is quiet and solid under 45mph. Wind noise starts to be audible above 50mph and it’s less than 72db on freeway with 70+mph.
I’m going to install some Dynamat to rear wheel wells and front doors (some vibration when listen to music)
Last couple photos showed what Tesla put in, built late September 2019. Very less expensive kind of Dynamat.
I continued to add Dynamat to trunk, rear speaker shelf, and interior cabin floor. I didn't install Dynapad because it was heavy and smell. Result: my car is quiet and solid under 45mph. Wind noise starts to be audible above 50mph and it’s less than 72db on freeway with 70+mph.
I’m going to install some Dynamat to rear wheel wells and front doors (some vibration when listen to music)
Last couple photos showed what Tesla put in, built late September 2019. Very less expensive kind of Dynamat.
Attachments
Roughly how much Dynamat (all Xtreme?) do you think you used in total? Just trying to gauge how much I should order.
Also, are there any concerns with water/salt hitting the Dynamat?
Yes, they are Dynamat Xtreme and I used 5 sheets of 9 (20lbs/package). I still have 4 sheets left for wheel wells and front doors.
Water may damage Dynamat behind the wheel wells, but I don’t think it’ll be that bad with California weather.
IF I do it again from beginning, I’ll install Dynamat at four wheel wells first, trunk and save cabin floor last.
https://www.amazon.com/Dynamat-10455-Self-Adhesive-Deadener-Xtreme/dp/B00020CB2S
Yes, they are Dynamat Xtreme and I used 5 sheets of 9 (20lbs/package). I still have 4 sheets left for wheel wells and front doors.
Water may damage Dynamat behind the wheel wells, but I don’t think it’ll be that bad with California weather.
IF I do it again from beginning, I’ll install Dynamat at four wheel wells first, trunk and save cabin floor last.
https://www.amazon.com/Dynamat-10455-Self-Adhesive-Deadener-Xtreme/dp/B00020CB2S
I’m happy to report that my model 3, SR+, is very quiet now after I installed Dynamat to the back of rear wheel wells and outside body panels. My wife and I can tell the difference and tire noise is very minimal. Recommended
Attachments
Yes, I did install Dynamat Xtreme both front wheel wells. Please see post #95.
Occhis
Member
Is this area protected from the elements? Because I thought Dynamat and like products were not waterproof. I am thinking of using this kind of product in wheel wells then covering it with closed cell waterproof material.
The materials aren’t water-absorbent, and water isn’t going to affect them, so I don’t see a problem or why an additional waterproof material would be useful. Anyway, the original lining material should deflect the dirt and water away
-Alex
Kiwiadventure
Member
My 23 July 2019 build model 3 is very silent. Its as good as any of my BMW's I owned and even better as their's no engine noise.
I have been surprised and a little frustrated that there has been so little proper analysis of noise levels inside the cabin of Tesla Model 3s (and, of course, S and X) and how to manage them. I’ve seen plenty of ad-hoc solutions - extra door seals, application of damping materials - but no complete analysis of the sources of noise, how to measure them and how to deal with them.
I should say that I am no expert on this matter but I have home-built hi-fi speakers and acoustically insulated a very noisy Mini car when I was in my 20s. As an engineer by training and a consultant most of my life I also seek out rigorous assessments of situations on which to base decisions. So I’m hoping that this post will trigger someone with acoustic engineering experience to enhance, modify or naysay my lay analysis of car cabin noise. If nothing else, I hope this post focuses people’s thinking on how to reduce perceived noise levels in the cabin of an M3.
Based on my (limited) experience of soundproofing and damping I would divide methods to reduce noise in the cabin into three categories:
1) Soundproofing: I would define this as blocking sound paths from the outside to the inside of the car but there may be a better, more specific word for it. Examples might include adding door seals and filling holes around windows or in car pillars.
2) Panel damping: This is the application of energy-absorbing sheet materials to car panels to prevent them “drumming” ie, vibrating in sympathy with, or being stimulated by, external vibrations from the wheels and motors. These sheet materials used to be gooey bituminous sheets but have now been replaced by more modern materials. It’s important to understand here that panels don’t need to be completely covered in such materials. In fact luxury car manufacturers will have worked out exactly how much to apply and where, to prevent 90% of drumming without adding lots of extra weight. You might only need a small square in the middle of a panel.
3) Sound absorption: This is dealing with what is left after you have blocked all direct sound routes into the car cabin and stopped car panels from drumming. Sound absorption is akin to air damping, that is absorbing acoustic vibrations and turning them into heat. Typical materials used to absorb acoustic energy are acoustic wadding and foam - and you need enough of it to make a difference! Thin sheets of sound-absorbing material will have negligible impact. Sound absorption can be divided into two further subcategories: (i) reducing the level of noise passing into the car cabin and (ii) deadening the inside of the cabin which not only reduces noise from the outside but also makes speech and other wanted sounds more intelligible.
Soundproofing and panel damping are probably the most talked about, but not necessarily the best understood, of these three categories - I am fairly sure that people will be applying far more damping material to panels than is actually necessary. But sound absorption doesn’t really seem to be discussed much and yet there seem to be several opportunities to introduce it into the car cabin. For example, I am amazed that there is no underfelt below the carpet in the car. The relatively thin carpet seems to have been laid directly on the (metal?) top of the battery compartment which you can “pop” up and down with your foot. Also, from pictures I’ve seen of a damping material being applied to the doors, there doesn’t appear to be any acoustic wadding inside the doors of the car. So there do seem to be opportunities to improve soundproofing of the cabin although it should be noted that it is more difficult to absorb low frequencies than high ones. My aim here, though, is not to offer specific solutions but to stimulate discussion and perhaps experimentation!
Which brings me to my final point on noise in the M3: how to measure it...
I’ve seen many statements of how many dBs of noise there were before and after attempts at noise reduction and, sometimes, disappointment that the level doesn’t seem to have changed very much. But dB - a logarithmic scale typically used for measuring electrical and acoustic power levels - is meaningless unless it is properly linked to the ear’s perception of sound. For example two sounds of equivalent acoustic power level (dBa), one at 30Hz and the other at 1kHz will have a completely different impact on the listener. In fact the 30Hz may be next to inaudible to many people, depending on the absolute sound level, whereas 1kHz is close to peak sensitivity of the ear so extremely audible. There are several different “curves” that can be applied to acoustic meters to allow for the ear’s varying sensitivity to different frequencies but these are averaging tools and don’t really help in proper acoustic analysis.
All this is therefore to say that rather than a dBa measurement of sound level in an M3 cabin before-and-after application of some form of acoustic insulation, what is actually needed is the change in acoustic signature - that is, a before-and-after frequency analysis of the noise spectrum in the car and mapping onto how the ear will perceive any change in specific frequency levels. For example, strategically damping the floor of the cabin and placing underfelt under the carpet may well reduce medium to high frequency noise in the cabin but with a lesser effect on low frequencies. Since a lot of car tyre noise is low-frequency, a dBa meter may not show much change in sound pressure level, while there may be a perceptible difference to a human.
Sound signature analysis requires far more sophisticated equipment than cheap dBa meters bought off Amazon. I’m not suggesting we should rush out and buy it. But it would be great if there was someone in the Tesla community who had access to such equipment and might be willing to perform some tests!
Anyway, I’ve said my bit. I hope people looking for ways to reduce noise in their M3s find this simple analysis useful and I look forward to anyone adding a more rigorous assessment and and actual recommendations on the best way forward.
I should say that I am no expert on this matter but I have home-built hi-fi speakers and acoustically insulated a very noisy Mini car when I was in my 20s. As an engineer by training and a consultant most of my life I also seek out rigorous assessments of situations on which to base decisions. So I’m hoping that this post will trigger someone with acoustic engineering experience to enhance, modify or naysay my lay analysis of car cabin noise. If nothing else, I hope this post focuses people’s thinking on how to reduce perceived noise levels in the cabin of an M3.
Based on my (limited) experience of soundproofing and damping I would divide methods to reduce noise in the cabin into three categories:
1) Soundproofing: I would define this as blocking sound paths from the outside to the inside of the car but there may be a better, more specific word for it.
Examples might include adding door seals and filling holes around windows or in car pillars.2) Panel damping: This is the application of energy-absorbing sheet materials to car panels to prevent them “drumming” ie, vibrating in sympathy with, or being stimulated by, external vibrations from the wheels and motors. These sheet materials used to be gooey bituminous sheets but have now been replaced by more modern materials. It’s important to understand here that panels don’t need to be completely covered in such materials. In fact luxury car manufacturers will have worked out exactly how much to apply and where, to prevent 90% of drumming without adding lots of extra weight. You might only need a small square in the middle of a panel.
3) Sound absorption: This is dealing with what is left after you have blocked all direct sound routes into the car cabin and stopped car panels from drumming. Sound absorption is akin to air damping, that is absorbing acoustic vibrations and turning them into heat. Typical materials used to absorb acoustic energy are acoustic wadding and foam - and you need enough of it to make a difference! Thin sheets of sound-absorbing material will have negligible impact. Sound absorption can be divided into two further subcategories: (i) reducing the level of noise passing into the car cabin and (ii) deadening the inside of the cabin which not only reduces noise from the outside but also makes speech and other wanted sounds more intelligible.
Soundproofing and panel damping are probably the most talked about, but not necessarily the best understood, of these three categories - I am fairly sure that people will be applying far more damping material to panels than is actually necessary. But sound absorption doesn’t really seem to be discussed much and yet there seem to be several opportunities to introduce it into the car cabin. For example, I am amazed that there is no underfelt below the carpet in the car. The relatively thin carpet seems to have been laid directly on the (metal?) top of the battery compartment which you can “pop” up and down with your foot. Also, from pictures I’ve seen of a damping material being applied to the doors, there doesn’t appear to be any acoustic wadding inside the doors of the car. So there do seem to be opportunities to improve soundproofing of the cabin although it should be noted that it is more difficult to absorb low frequencies than high ones. My aim here, though, is not to offer specific solutions but to stimulate discussion and perhaps experimentation!
Which brings me to my final point on noise in the M3: how to measure it...
I’ve seen many statements of how many dBs of noise there were before and after attempts at noise reduction and, sometimes, disappointment that the level doesn’t seem to have changed very much. But dB - a logarithmic scale typically used for measuring electrical and acoustic power levels - is meaningless unless it is properly linked to the ear’s perception of sound. For example two sounds of equivalent acoustic power level (dBa), one at 30Hz and the other at 1kHz will have a completely different impact on the listener. In fact the 30Hz may be next to inaudible to many people, depending on the absolute sound level, whereas 1kHz is close to peak sensitivity of the ear so extremely audible. There are several different “curves” that can be applied to acoustic meters to allow for the ear’s varying sensitivity to different frequencies but these are averaging tools and don’t really help in proper acoustic analysis.
All this is therefore to say that rather than a dBa measurement of sound level in an M3 cabin before-and-after application of some form of acoustic insulation, what is actually needed is the change in acoustic signature - that is, a before-and-after frequency analysis of the noise spectrum in the car and mapping onto how the ear will perceive any change in specific frequency levels. For example, strategically damping the floor of the cabin and placing underfelt under the carpet may well reduce medium to high frequency noise in the cabin but with a lesser effect on low frequencies. Since a lot of car tyre noise is low-frequency, a dBa meter may not show much change in sound pressure level, while there may be a perceptible difference to a human.
Sound signature analysis requires far more sophisticated equipment than cheap dBa meters bought off Amazon. I’m not suggesting we should rush out and buy it. But it would be great if there was someone in the Tesla community who had access to such equipment and might be willing to perform some tests!
Anyway, I’ve said my bit. I hope people looking for ways to reduce noise in their M3s find this simple analysis useful and I look forward to anyone adding a more rigorous assessment and and actual recommendations on the best way forward.
tinyrodent
Member
Following this thread. My LR AWD is quite noisy at speed, it seems to be mostly coming from the tires (stock 18" until this afternoon, switching to snow tires). Whenever I roll onto a freshly paved stretch of road, the noise disappears.
gilscales
Banned
This is really the only thing I dislike about the car, it is extremely noisy at speed and especially so on less than perfect roads (in other words, all roads in L.A. County) I am surprised that Tesla could not have addressed this better when designing the model 3, I still love the car, it is still my favorite car by a large margin and consider this a small price to pay to be driving in the future!I have been surprised and a little frustrated that there has been so little proper analysis of noise levels inside the cabin of Tesla Model 3s (and, of course, S and X) and how to manage them. I’ve seen plenty of ad-hoc solutions - extra door seals, application of damping materials - but no complete analysis of the sources of noise, how to measure them and how to deal with them.
I should say that I am no expert on this matter but I have home-built hi-fi speakers and acoustically insulated a very noisy Mini car when I was in my 20s. As an engineer by training and a consultant most of my life I also seek out rigorous assessments of situations on which to base decisions. So I’m hoping that this post will trigger someone with acoustic engineering experience to enhance, modify or naysay my lay analysis of car cabin noise. If nothing else, I hope this post focuses people’s thinking on how to reduce perceived noise levels in the cabin of an M3.
Based on my (limited) experience of soundproofing and damping I would divide methods to reduce noise in the cabin into three categories:
1) Soundproofing: I would define this as blocking sound paths from the outside to the inside of the car but there may be a better, more specific word for it.
2) Panel damping: This is the application of energy-absorbing sheet materials to car panels to prevent them “drumming” ie, vibrating in sympathy with, or being stimulated by, external vibrations from the wheels and motors. These sheet materials used to be gooey bituminous sheets but have now been replaced by more modern materials. It’s important to understand here that panels don’t need to be completely covered in such materials. In fact luxury car manufacturers will have worked out exactly how much to apply and where, to prevent 90% of drumming without adding lots of extra weight. You might only need a small square in the middle of a panel.
3) Sound absorption: This is dealing with what is left after you have blocked all direct sound routes into the car cabin and stopped car panels from drumming. Sound absorption is akin to air damping, that is absorbing acoustic vibrations and turning them into heat. Typical materials used to absorb acoustic energy are acoustic wadding and foam - and you need enough of it to make a difference! Thin sheets of sound-absorbing material will have negligible impact. Sound absorption can be divided into two further subcategories: (i) reducing the level of noise passing into the car cabin and (ii) deadening the inside of the cabin which not only reduces noise from the outside but also makes speech and other wanted sounds more intelligible.
Soundproofing and panel damping are probably the most talked about, but not necessarily the best understood, of these three categories - I am fairly sure that people will be applying far more damping material to panels than is actually necessary. But sound absorption doesn’t really seem to be discussed much and yet there seem to be several opportunities to introduce it into the car cabin. For example, I am amazed that there is no underfelt below the carpet in the car. The relatively thin carpet seems to have been laid directly on the (metal?) top of the battery compartment which you can “pop” up and down with your foot. Also, from pictures I’ve seen of a damping material being applied to the doors, there doesn’t appear to be any acoustic wadding inside the doors of the car. So there do seem to be opportunities to improve soundproofing of the cabin although it should be noted that it is more difficult to absorb low frequencies than high ones. My aim here, though, is not to offer specific solutions but to stimulate discussion and perhaps experimentation!
Which brings me to my final point on noise in the M3: how to measure it...
I’ve seen many statements of how many dBs of noise there were before and after attempts at noise reduction and, sometimes, disappointment that the level doesn’t seem to have changed very much. But dB - a logarithmic scale typically used for measuring electrical and acoustic power levels - is meaningless unless it is properly linked to the ear’s perception of sound. For example two sounds of equivalent acoustic power level (dBa), one at 30Hz and the other at 1kHz will have a completely different impact on the listener. In fact the 30Hz may be next to inaudible to many people, depending on the absolute sound level, whereas 1kHz is close to peak sensitivity of the ear so extremely audible. There are several different “curves” that can be applied to acoustic meters to allow for the ear’s varying sensitivity to different frequencies but these are averaging tools and don’t really help in proper acoustic analysis.
All this is therefore to say that rather than a dBa measurement of sound level in an M3 cabin before-and-after application of some form of acoustic insulation, what is actually needed is the change in acoustic signature - that is, a before-and-after frequency analysis of the noise spectrum in the car and mapping onto how the ear will perceive any change in specific frequency levels. For example, strategically damping the floor of the cabin and placing underfelt under the carpet may well reduce medium to high frequency noise in the cabin but with a lesser effect on low frequencies. Since a lot of car tyre noise is low-frequency, a dBa meter may not show much change in sound pressure level, while there may be a perceptible difference to a human.
Sound signature analysis requires far more sophisticated equipment than cheap dBa meters bought off Amazon. I’m not suggesting we should rush out and buy it. But it would be great if there was someone in the Tesla community who had access to such equipment and might be willing to perform some tests!
Anyway, I’ve said my bit. I hope people looking for ways to reduce noise in their M3s find this simple analysis useful and I look forward to anyone adding a more rigorous assessment and and actual recommendations on the best way forward.
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