Southern CA Edison rates make it not worth charging at home

[psyopz]

Hi, I was wondering if I could get some clarification/correction, but as I was doing the math, it seems like it would not be worth it for me to charge at home with my current rates. Please correct me if I am wrong (I was looking forward to installing home charger).

Here's my situation:
-Wife works from home all day

 

[jjrandorin]

It looks like the rest of your post got cut off, but to head you off here, you can swap to a plan that gives dramatically lower rates overnight (from 12pm to 6am) so it will still be cheaper to charge at home.

You will just need to limit your energy usage between 4-9pm peak rates. In almost all cases, unless you were driving the proverbal econobox car that got 38MPG and are comparing that to a model Y, it will be cheaper than gas.

 

[psyopz]

Sorry, you’re right. I posted prematurely, and can't figure out how to edit my post. Anyways, here’s where I left off:

-My wife works from home and in-laws live with us so day time/peak use is higher than average household. She often works in the evenings, which is happens to be peak 4-9pm rates. She's in software so it's computer heavy work, which I assume is energy intensive.
-I’m currently on Tiered system. I’m considering the TOU-prime, but looking at our usage, not sure it would be beneficial given our historic peak usage.
-We purchased a MY in June, but started charging at home using a 110V towards the end of June.

Here is a breakdown of our current rate and TOU rates:

Tier 1: up to 403kWh charged at .23
Tier 2: up to 1612kWh charged at .30
Tier 3: above 1612kWh charged at .38

TOU-Prime Rates (Summer Weekday)
8am-4pm: .17
4pm-9pm: .45
9pm-8am: .17

I have access to supercharger with .21/kWh.

Here’s our historic usage:
June 2020, we used: 970 kWh. Billed: 217.43
July 2020, we used 990 kWh. Billed: 244.20
Aug 2020, we used: 1195 kWh. Billed: 299.06

June 2021, we used: 789 kWh. Billed: 214.49
July 2021, we used 1466 kWh. Billed: 416.22
Aug 2021 was looking like it would be slightly higher than July, until I stopped charging my car.

I’ve been using the mobile charger in a 110V. I was planning on getting NEMA 14-50 installed, but after looking at the numbers, am holding off until I can get some feedback.
Is there something really inefficient with the 110V that is causing the anomaly? Even then, my base rate as of now is .23, which is higher than the .21 supercharger.
Does it make more sense to just supercharge at .21/kWh and stay on my current tiered system?
Will switching the TOU-prime lower my bill significantly?

I’ll attach a screenshoot of daily use by hours on a couple random days when I was charging the Model Y. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Madsen203]

Bay Area rates are $0.30/$0.38/kWh off/on peak.
Fortunately, we have 2,900 kWh surplus in solar which accounts for about 9-10k miles annually of driving.

rates are stupid high. I LOL when I see people complaining about $0.13/kwh.

 

[psyopz]

Bay Area rates are $0.30/$0.38/kWh off/on peak.
Fortunately, we have 2,900 kWh surplus in solar which accounts for about 9-10k miles annually of driving.

rates are stupid high. I LOL when I see people complaining about $0.13/kwh.

I was also debating going solar after seeing these numbers, but I don't know how much longer my roof will last. I was told maybe 10 more years by an inspector when I bought the home 2 years ago.

 

[dhiltonp]

She's in software so it's computer heavy work, which I assume is energy intensive.

It probably isn't; she's probably using less than 100W for her compute on average.

If she's using a laptop it definitely isn't.

 

[jcanoe]

Perhaps you can create a spreadsheet of all of your electrical appliances, whether then run constantly or as needed on-demand.

The largest electricity usage in summer will be the air conditioning compressor; if you have multiple zones then each zone will have a compressor.

If you have a swimming pool then the pool filter pump should be added to the spreadsheet. Also a spa tub. (These motors can be set on timers so they only run a fraction of the time, still adequately circulate and filter the water.)

You can shift using appliances for things such as laundry and dish washing to the lower rate period.

The energy usage of a home or business computer should be easy to calculate. Many computers can be set to enter sleep mode when not in use to conserve energy. You can add a monitor such a a KillAWatt unit to track the energy usage of specific electronics and computers.

Charging an EV using 120V is less efficient than charging at 240V, you would benefit from ~10% higher efficiency when charging at 240V. That would save a little money but the real savings would be if you had a TOU plan with the lowest rates from midnight to 06:00 AM.

Utility rates are not easy for the consumer to follow and understand. If you are paying $0.17 per kWh if you look closely at your utility bill this is most likely only the cost of generating the electricity and does not include the cost of transporting, delivering the electricity to your home. These costs are tallied under Distribution Costs. Typically the Power Generation cost and the Power Distribution cost are approximately the same (within a few cents per kWh). You add these costs to get close to the total cost. Don't forget to add in taxes, tariffs and special environmental fees. (It may be easiest to take a recent bill and divide the total amount by the total number of kWh to get a better idea of your cost per kWh.

June 2021, we used: 789 kWh. Billed: 214.49: $214.50/789 kWh = $0.27 per kWh

July 2021, we used 1466 kWh. Billed: 416.22: $416.20/1466 kWh = $0.28 per kWh

If there is TOU rate plan similar to a TOU-5 rate plan available from your utility then you may be able to charge the Tesla after midnight before 06:00 A.M. and pay less than your current rate.

If you only pay $0.21 per kWh to use a Supercharger (off-peak perhaps?) then that would be one option. Assuming that you only need to charge at the Supercharger once or twice a week unless you were driving to where the Supercharger is located for other purposes most days it is worth considering. Frequent Supercharging is more stressful to the Tesla battery than charging using 120V or 240V. Tesla's battery management system precisely manages each Supercharger charging session to minimize the impact of Supercharging on the life of the Tesla vehicle's battery. If this an Urban Supercharger it is limited to a more battery friendly 72kW charging rate than if it is a V2 Supercharger or V3 Supercharger.

 

[Madsen203]

I was also debating going solar after seeing these numbers, but I don't know how much longer my roof will last. I was told maybe 10 more years by an inspector when I bought the home 2 years ago.

Just pay someone to remove the panel and reinstall. The majority of the upfront cost is the equipment and initial configuration.

I used a local contractor group and it was $1k per panel installed. We installed 14 panels which covers our EV usage, hot tub, AC, and basic appliances. Water heater and stove top are gas. With the rebate (26% at the time), our ROI is 4.5 years. Great time to have solar.

 

[cwerdna]

Bay Area rates are $0.30/$0.38/kWh off/on peak.
Fortunately, we have 2,900 kWh surplus in solar which accounts for about 9-10k miles annually of driving.

rates are stupid high. I LOL when I see people complaining about $0.13/kwh.

Depends on what plan you're on.
https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_EV2 (Sch).pdf per page 2 ranges from 18.5 to 49.8 cents per kWh
https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-TOU-C.pdf per page 2 ranges from 23 to 42 cents per kWh -- I'm on this and almost never charge at home. There are DC FCs near home that are 19 cents per kWh. I also get free L2 juice at work which was my primary source from end of July 2013 to March 2020 until COVID hit. In June 2021, I finally have been sometimes going to the office when it's too hot at home.
https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-TOU-D.pdf per page 2 comes closest to what you describe at about 28.3 to 38 cents per kWh

And yes, that's why I call them Pacific Gouge & Extort.

 

[Fourdoor]

Just pay someone to remove the panel and reinstall. The majority of the upfront cost is the equipment and initial configuration.

I used a local contractor group and it was $1k per panel installed. We installed 14 panels which covers our EV usage, hot tub, AC, and basic appliances. Water heater and stove top are gas. With the rebate (26% at the time), our ROI is 4.5 years. Great time to have solar.

Or just bite the bullet and replace the roof now and put solar on. My electricity is stupid cheap, so payoff time on solar is just a few days past the end of time... but if I lived in California (or somewhere else with expensive electricity) I would have solar so fast it would make your head spin.

Keith

 

[Exelion]

I also have SoCal Edison, a model Y, and a wife that is at home all day. And your tiered pricing is exactly the same as mine.

-the whole game is to try to keep it in the first, and if not, at least the second tier.

-Central AC and car charging are the two biggest contributors to getting bumped into the next tier. In the wintertime, it’s going to be car charging and electric heaters (which can be 1500W per hour per each one unit!)

-someone above said it: AC is the biggest offender. the cost of central AC set at 78 degrees for the whole day for a few months was enough to buy a portable AC and use that in one room, and let the other rooms get hot. For me, that was the second biggest savings, the first being:

-Avoiding car charging at home altogether. I try to charge as much as possible at work, which gives me a tremendous discounted rate. Sometimes I would push to 100% and drive home, giving me about 80 something percent for the rest of the weekend. by having the car charge someplace else, it helps keep off tier three. Not everyone has this option available. In your case, use the supercharger, since its already lower than tier one by a little. Not saying always use it, but try to find a way to keep the inconvenience to a minimum.

-computers, especially laptops, dont use much electricity. Thats not what’s spiking your electric bill.

-TOU seems to benefit only if the entire family had not-normal work/life habits. Like working from 2:00PM to 10:00 PM that sort of thing. The hours that are expensive just so happens to match when everyone is at home using the electricity the most. Over forty cents per kWh? Very expensive, unless a powerwall (or other home battery system) is in place. Of course, with rates like that, car charging, and just about anything that uses a compresor will be at night-you ready for the change in lifestyle to fit a lower cost?

 

[TomServo]

We pay 9.3 cents per kWh (flat-rate) here in southern IL (AMERENIP) and they are about to introduce something like TOU pricing. But when I started reading all the rules and "fines" if you don't follow the rules you get stiff penalties.

We are retired and not sure how the new "tiered rates" would help or hurt us. So I'll stick to paying a flat rate until I know it will actually affect our household.

 

[sleepydoc]

Man I'm glad I live in MN and not in SF! we pay $0.12-0.14/kWh and my electric CoOp has on off peak charging program that drops it to $0.06/kWh if I restrict charging to 11p-7a!

-computers, especially laptops, dont use much electricity. Thats not what’s spiking your electric bill.

that depends on the computer. My MacBook Pro generally averages between 20-50 watts, depending what I'm doing. Gaming computers can use in excess of 600 watts.

 

[Srad600Volt]

Another SoCal Edison customer here, both my wife and I work from home (although the wife is expecting to start going back to her office soon). I'm on the tiered program (cheaper to charge mid-day or early morning/late night). I added solar to our roof just before we got the MY in anticipation of the cost increase due to charging. Before the car, I got a credit every month, except dead of "winter" months when my bill was still next to nothing. This summer, even with the solar, the bill is starting to creep up again. So much so that I use mainly free S/C miles to charge the car unless it just doesn't work logistically. I knew my system was a bit under sized (to cover the whole house + charge the car), so at some point I have to add a few more panels to break even. I think in our case, the increased costs center more around A/C use than anything else...that and my kids have yet to figure out how to turn OFF a light switch!

 

[whisperingshad]

Wonder if my 850w psu with my 3080gpu etc cost more to run than charging my car at 120v lol

 

[bluenycom]

SCE here too but I also have Tesla solar and one powerwall. My plan is TOU-D-A with net metering. I only charge during super off peak at 13c/kWh. The rest of the time, it's cheaper to use the Supercharger half a mile a way, which I only had to do once.

 

[ChrisMPK]

You can try to figure out how to shave total usage to stay under the crazy expensive tiers, but this is only a stop-gap. Eventually you will forced to do TOU or use candles for light and heat. TOU isn't a bad thing though, and it gives you control over your rates which you don't have with a tiered plan. Basically, it costs a lot for usage during the afternoon hours when it also costs the utility a lot to produce and deliver (2-8 pm, more or less). It costs a medium amount most of the day, and very little from midnight to 8 am.

You can very easily change habits like running the dishwasher and laundry as mentioned, and if you have a modicum of ingenuity you can pre-cool your house on hot days in the morning to reduce AC demand at night. Set your vehicle to charge during your lowest TOU period and you will be paying about 1/3 the cost per mile of a gas car. If you have solar with or without a storage system you can really leverage these numbers in your advantage. Also, if you have access to a commercial property you will be shocked at how much cheaper the daytime energy is. I charge at work for $.03 per KWH in the winter (not a typo).

I attached screengrabs of my power usage during the last month. Keep in mind this is SoCal during a heat wave and we are nice and cool in the house.

 

[Ken_Y]

Also SCE customer here. I don't bother. The convenience of charging at home still far supersedes having to go out to charge at SC off peak. The TOU honestly doesn't make sense. They need to do a better job in rewarding EV owners and not punishing. I know a leaf owner got a 2nd meter installed for just their EV. Maybe you can look into that. Otherwise, solar is the way to go.

 

[Marcust99]

Wow some crazy numbers here!

I thought it was bad here in AZ paying .21 peak and .11 off peak (only time I charge). No maximums.... But again, CA proves
it's so expensive compared to almost anywhere!

 

[whisperingshad]

If you own a home in Cali, Solar is the way to go. Change everything to Electric(Stove[unless she says no], Oven, dryer, water heater). Only bill you will have is the loan for the Solar and maybe some gas for the heater. Plus the normal stuff.