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Southern Utah charging infrastructure, seeking charger type advice

Discussion in 'Mountain/Southwest' started by BryanW, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. BryanW

    BryanW R#664, Model S#1526

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    Ok, so this forum doesn't see a lot of Utah activity, but there are a small but growing number of us here. We received out 85 kwh Model S a few weeks ago, and absolutely love it!

    We live in Orem and several times a year we drive to Cedar City for the Utah Shakespeare Festival.

    Right now, southern Utah is an empty wasteland for EV recharging. Yes, there are KOA's and such, but on Plugshare.com there is a 263 mile gap between the Walgreens in Springville, and the Stephen Wade Auto Center in St. George. Cedar City would be a perfect place for having higher speed charging options. Tesla does have a dot near Cedar City on the planning map for the supercharging network. Cedar City is well positioned between Las Vegas and Salt Lake City, 175 miles from Vegas, and 252 miles from SLC. With charging in Cedar City, an 85kw can efficiently make the trip from Vegas to SLC, which opens up SLC to all of CA and vice versa.

    My thought is to donate several charging stations to the Utah Shakespeare Festival. The festival draws a large portion of its audience from the zone between SLC and Las Vegas, so would benefit from offering EV charging to these patrons. Additionally, the parking lots for the festival are downtown in Cedar City, near several nice restaurants.

    My first thought was to donate a Tesla Model S HPWC or two to the festival and see if I could get them to install them in the parking lot with 100 amp lines. This would give a Model S 60 mph of charge. This would allow a Model S owner from SLC or Las Vegas to drive to Cedar, charge for the 3 hours a play lasts, and have gained 180 miles of charge for the return trip. Having a couple of HPWC in Cedar City would also be a nice backup after the supercharger is installed if the supercharger bays are full.

    My question is regarding the best chargers to donate to the Festival. Is there at J1172 charger that might be a better choice? Less expensive? Still able to take advantage of the Model S's twin charger? Able to charge other EV's as well?

    My next step would be to talk with some of the hotels in Cedar to see if they will install a charger, or at least a NEMA 14-50 for their guests. The Spring Hill Suites has said I can plug in to their outdoor outlets, but these are 120v standard wall outlets, which at 2-3 mph charge, there would be no way I could sufficiently recharge.

    Anyway, any advice on charger type would be appreciated. Also, if anyone is interested in helping with the project, let me know.
     
  2. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    That would be very nice of you to donate chargers. Since it's your money, you can decide how open you want it to be. If you are donating more than one, how about a mix of one Tesla HPWC and then a normal J1772 charger at 40A for other EVs as well? 100A lines are probably expensive it depends on how much you or they are willing to spend. A HPWC in the wild would be like gold for Tesla owners traveling. If none of that works, NEMA 14-50 outlets would also be very nice.
     
  3. Park2670

    Park2670 Member

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    Even though a Tesla isnt in my immediate future, I was hoping they would install a Supercharger between SLC and Vegas as that would be a route many owners would take. Hopefully it is on the roadmap!

    Hope to see you around town OP, in Lehi here :) What color do you have?
     
  4. BryanW

    BryanW R#664, Model S#1526

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    Blue, but only when the sun is out. In this cloudy winter, it generally looks black.
    Live in Orem, work in AF.
    According to Tesla service there are about 10 Model S's and half a dozen Roadsters in Utah (they, understandably wouldn't give me exact numbers). And, I know of at least 3 other orders from Utah, so your chances of seeing one in the Utah wild should be continually increasing.
    I have yet to see a Tesla in the wild in Utah other than ours. Though, I did see a Model S in San Jose a week ago!
     
  5. johnnyS

    johnnyS Member

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    I want to go to Zion national park from Los Angeles. In a gas car I can make it in a days drive. I know that I can get an overnight charge at an RV park outside Zion. I have not checked on the options between Las Vegas and Zion, sounds like it will be difficult.
     
  6. BryanW

    BryanW R#664, Model S#1526

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    @johnnyS - It is currently challenging to traverse Utah on the current EV charging infrastructure. Northern Utah has a decent network of public chargers, but we also have vast stretches of highway, I-15, I-70, and I-80 that have very few options. At the moment RV parks with NEMA 14-50's and careful planning are the way to go.

    Having said that, once there is a Tesla supercharger in Vegas, you should still be able to make it from LA to Zion's NP in a day, about 170 miles from Vegas to Zion for the last leg. Assuming a 265 rated range charge in Vegas, you'd even have excess range to explore the area. If you stay at an RV park near Zion's and 14-50 charge each night, you'd have excess range daily to explore Zion's (park and shuttle anyway) and all of the great nearby areas.

    Once we have the Vegas supercharger and one around Cedar City, then the cheapest travel plans for Utah families to visit Disneyland will be FREE charging along the Tesla Supercharging Highway! Family of 7 in a Model S, from Utah to Disney, transportation cost? ZERO! Beat that flying, or in a Suburban.
     
  7. Jason S

    Jason S Model S Sig Perf (P85)

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    A J1772 could deliver 80A. Many electric cars can use at least a portion of that. A Model S HPWC is only Model S.

    Putting a NEMA 14-50 at same place would make it a target for RVs... I don't know if that's a plus or minus.
     
  8. BryanW

    BryanW R#664, Model S#1526

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    #8 BryanW, Feb 19, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
    @Jason S - yeah, that's the question, to go J1772 or HPWC? The advantage to the HPWC is that it does not require an adapter for the Model S, and perhaps because it is Model S specific.

    The thing is, southern Utah is a wide swath of emptiness, and I have a hard time imagining that any EV other than the Model S could makes the trip in and out without taking days of travel. With a HPWC, a Model S could come from Vegas or SLC see a show while charging, then still return home. No other EV could do this. So, I'm not sure how much I should worry about including compatibility with other EV's.

    Having said that, times and cars will progress. Is there an J1772 capable of charging at 80 amps that you would recommend? The only ones I could find are actually more expensive than the HPWC.
     
  9. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    ClipperCreek makes a J1772 80A charger. I'd say if you are paying for everything go ahead and install the HPWC as you are right, no other EV other than someone local could use it. That would also decrease chance on someone local using it to charge their Leaf, Volt or PiP...etc every day too.
     
  10. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    I pretty much agree with dsm. I think J1772 is the way to go, but if you are footing the bill the HPWC is cheaper than getting an 80A J1772. I don't think any electric cars other than a Tesla would be doing that trip, but I don't think discriminating is the way to go.

    But I also have looked at some high powered J1772 stations, and the HPWC is significantly less expensive.
     
  11. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    I don't think it is discriminating to install a HPWC if you are paying for everything involved and want to make it a free service to other Tesla owners. That said, a J1772 charger would be more open.

    Will you have anyone to check on the charger or make sure it is still working for when you need it? Maybe if you add it to PlugShare you can see the last time it was used and post a sign on the HPWC asking people to check in on Plugshare if they use it.
     
  12. Park2670

    Park2670 Member

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    Thats intersting! I had a coworker see a Black one in Park City, and I saw a white one leave my work complex a few days later. Hope to see more, and hopefully get a ride in one soon. You ever think about stopping by Cars and Coffee in South Jordan, let me know. Id love to meet up.
     
  13. neroden

    neroden Happy Model S Owner

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    Sun Country Highway (the folks putting chargers across Canada) make a J1772 charger (evCharger CS 90) which is capable of drawing 70 amp continuous, taking nearly full advantage of the Model S's twin chargers, while also being usable for other EVs.

    In fact, the existence of Sun Country Highway is the reason I went with the twin charger option. They seem to be the only people installing 70 amp public chargers. It seems to be a little over $2000. That would be my advice.

    (Disclosure: I do not have any business or personal relationship with Sun Country Highway. I'm sure the Clipper Creek model is just as nice.)
     
  14. BryanW

    BryanW R#664, Model S#1526

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    @neroden- thanks for the advice. I'll keep that in mind when I talk with the festival.

    @Park- black, white, blue, we're up to 3! I haven't yet met another Tesla owner in Utah, though I've put out an invitation to meet in the only Utah thread I am aware of in Telsa's in house forums. What's 'Car and Coffee'? Is that an event? A place?
     
  15. Park2670

    Park2670 Member

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    A big group of car nerds get together around a coffee shop and talk cars. Every Saturday morning on 106th in South Jordan.
     
  16. DrComputer

    DrComputer Member

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    Sun country highway is just the Canadian distributor for Clipper Creek products.
     
  17. Denarius

    Denarius Active Member

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    I'm curious if you've made any progress on this. I'm currently considering ordering a model S, but I commonly drive between SLC and St George. A quick charge in Cedar City would eliminate my worries about making the trip in a timely manner.
     
  18. BryanW

    BryanW R#664, Model S#1526

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    Still in the earliest planning phases.

    I've stalled waiting for a few pieces of information:
    1. The fuse issue with the HPWC. I don't really want to deal with having a HPWC installed, then have to figure out how to get it upgraded once they fix the 80 amp charging issue. Once they do fix the 80 amp issue, I think I'm leaning toward the Tesla HPWC over a J1772 charger because it is less expensive, and favors the Model S which is the only all electric that can make it to Cedar City from SLC or Las Vegas on a charge.

    2. The supercharger announcement. I'm hoping that Elon's supercharger announcement in the next few weeks will include a couple in the Utah corridor. If they will be opening a supercharger in Cedar City this year, then the Festival charger may be moot. (Though I may still see if the festival is interested in having a HPWC at the Randall parking lot as an enticement to draw patrons.)

    Once the above issues are resolved, then I still need to contact the Utah Shakespeare Festival to see if they would be willing to accept the donation, have their engineer team do the installation, and figure out if they are willing to cover the marginal costs of charging. Once I get to that point, I'll post here with updates.
     
  19. Denarius

    Denarius Active Member

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    Based off of today's announcement I'm assuming you aren't going to try and put a charger in Cedar City.

    I find their placement a little odd though. It looks like they are planning on putting a charger in St George and one in the Nephi area for North/South traffic. Thoughts?
     
  20. BryanW

    BryanW R#664, Model S#1526

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    Honestly, I'm not sure today's announcement helps me either way.
    I think it's great they are putting in more superchargers in Utah than they had initially announced back in the day.
    Given the increase in number, I think the placement looks pretty good, but will of course depend on the exact location of the chargers.

    As best I can estimate, it looks like the first 4, in the Winter 2013 section look to be: St. George, Cove Fort, Green River, and Nephi.
    It looks like they are going with St. George and triangulating the I-15, I-70 and Route 6 connections throughout the state, which I think would be perfect.

    Given that, I think Nephi isn't the best choice.

    I think it should be St. George, Cove Fort, Green River, and Spanish Fork.
    St. George makes sense, as it is an important stop between SLC and Las Vegas, and serves as the access point to Zion's NP.
    Cove Fort, as it is the closest spot to the I-15 / I-70 interchange.
    Green River makes sense for the same reasons, the connecting point between I-70 and Rt. 6.
    The last point should be Spanish Fork, as it is the top of the triangle, and would allow charging coming from either Rt. 6 or I-15.

    For example, if you are coming from LA to SLC it's just as easy to charge in Cove Fort, then Spanish Fork (125 miles) as in Nephi (92 miles). However, if coming from Denver to SLC on I-70, you supercharge in Green River, then in Spanish Fork, then head up to SLC. If the supercharger is in Nephi, you either need to take I-15 to Rt-89, then head up to Nephi (162 miles, adding 60+ miles to your planned trip), or go through Spanish Fork and back track (164 miles supercharger to supercharger, adding 60+ miles from your trip from Green River to SLC), again adding 30-40 miles to your trip.
    Green River strait to SLC is 182 miles, doable in an 85kwh, but possibly stretching it for a 60kwh. So, Nephi is redundant on the I-15 corridor, while not being helpful on the I-70 to Rt 6 corridor.

    So, in my opinion it makes the most sense to put the supercharges at the points of this triangle as this maximizes usage along all 3 routes, while Nephi is somewhat redundant without adding the usefulness of south-east/north-west passage through Utah.
    Cove Fort - Spanish Fork: 125 miles
    Spanish Fork - Green River: 131 miles
    Green River - Cove Fort: 162 miles
    St. George - Cove Fort: 128 miles

    This combination would match the way the roads are used, and by road travel (not as the bird flies like the circles on the map imply) the only leg over 150 miles is the Green River to Cove Fort leg. Note, this leg is barren even for ICE vehicles. As you come into Green River from the east on I-70, you are greeted with this sign...
    IMG_0344.jpg
     

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