Space X Option Package

[ecarfan]

I'm thinking there will be track mode just like there is a launch mode. Thrusters would be emergency use only if not in track mode.

If you enable track mode in downtown expect to get a ticket for noise pollution.

I agree. Elon said these thrusters will be loud. Also, at street legal speeds they won’t be needed and therefore will not be activated (they will of course be software controlled, not manually controlled by the driver).

So this option will be for track use only, in my opinion. And there will be many jokes about how Tesla managed to make an EV that is louder on the track than an ICE race car.

 

[mongo]

I agree. Elon said these thrusters will be loud. Also, at street legal speeds they won’t be needed and therefore will not be activated (they will of course be software controlled, not manually controlled by the driver).

So this option will be for track use only, in my opinion. And there will be many jokes about how Tesla managed to make an EV that is louder on the track than an ICE race car.

Just another way they will blow away the competition...

 

[ZachF]

So not for use on public streets. Sounds like a real worthwhile use of tesla's limited resources doesn't it?

Tesla doesn't advertise through conventional means.

Watching youtube Videos of the Tesla-SpaceX Roadster blow by exotic cars on dragstrips with 7.x quarter miles like they're standing still is going to be worth more for increasing brand equity than any TV spot could ever hope to do.

 

[TEG]

So this option will be for track use only, in my opinion. And there will be many jokes about how Tesla managed to make an EV that is louder on the track than an ICE race car.

Some tracks have microphones and they will "black flag" cars that are too loud and make them stop racing.
So, even many track cars are noise restricted.
(But typically well beyond what would be tolerated on the street.)

 

[slipnslider]

How do you brake from 60mph to 0 mph in 50 feet? How do you jump over obstacles in case of an emergency?
How do you travel safely on the highway at 400km/h if you can't brake and turn at 3g to avoid death?

Another thing that traditional aero doesn't get you is efficiency if you optimize for safety and perf. If you make a car with very sticky tires, very high drag and very high downforce all the time, that's not good at all when it comes to fuel.
This kind of super-active aero allows Tesla to have low drag and downforce under normal conditions and a great flexibility to deploy just what is needed, when needed while using a lot less fuel.
This is like finally getting access to an opposable thumb.

A thumb will never be legal on public roads. How useful and what a wise investment.

 

[slipnslider]

Ummm.... Tesla has a bunch of money in Roadster reservations to spend on development. Including founders series cars at 250k up front.

That money is being spent now on fixing the model 3, not sitting in some "roadster only" account.

 

[mongo]

So first your complaint is that they are spending non-Roadster resources on Roadster, but now you say they are spending Roadster money on non-Roadster?

Every dollar spent on this toy is a dollar not spent on telsa's many other higher priorities.
Telsa doesn't get to whine "we had to only sell the most expensive cars first or else we wouldn't survive as a company!" and then go and waste money on boondoggles like this.

Ummm.... Tesla has a bunch of money in Roadster reservations to spend on development. Including founders series cars at 250k up front.

That money is being spent now on fixing the model 3, not sitting in some "roadster only" account.

 

[J X 3]

A thumb will never be legal on public roads. How useful and what a wise investment.

It already is legal in every ICE vehicles, it's called the exhaust system but only few use it for aero gains. Ofc the hot air stream is a byproduct of the engine but it's the same principle, you take a mass, an infinite resource in this case and you manipulate it to achieve a certain goal.
Safety and noise concerns must be addressed and will limit potential in certain environments but they are not something that renders the system useless in the long run.
The important part here is not the air speed or temperature (those can be a very wide range) , it's the fact that they store air to use it when appropriate. That's the fundamental difference between this and traditional solutions.

 

[slipnslider]

It already is legal in every ICE vehicles, it's called the exhaust system but only few use it for aero gains. Ofc the hot air stream is a byproduct of the engine but it's the same principle, you take a mass, an infinite resource in this case and you manipulate it to achieve a certain goal.
Safety and noise concerns must be addressed and will limit potential in certain environments but they are not something that renders the system useless in the long run.
The important part here is not the air speed or temperature (those can be a very wide range) , it's the fact that they store air to use it when appropriate. That's the fundamental difference between this and traditional solutions.

You brush off 2 massive obstacles with the simple phrase "must be addressed". Until there is a way to address them, this is a waste of money and effort.

 

[slipnslider]

So first your complaint is that they are spending non-Roadster resources on Roadster, but now you say they are spending Roadster money on non-Roadster?

There is no roadster money or model 3 money. There is tesla money.
This company says they can't sell the affordable car yet because they're on the edge of insolvency, then goes and spends resources on this boondoggle.

 

[mongo]

You brush off 2 massive obstacles with the simple phrase "must be addressed". Until there is a way to address them, this is a waste of money and effort.

Given SpaeX has been using cold gas thrusters for years, you might want to concider the possibility that they have already addressed the issues (esp safety since this the latest gen that NASA seems happy with).

There is no roadster money or model 3 money. There is tesla money.
This company says they can't sell the affordable car yet because they're on the edge of insolvency, then goes and spends resources on this boondoggle.

You and Oscar Meyer both.
They did not say they are on the edge of insolvency. Elon stated a normal business strategy of not selling the lowest cost/ lowest profit product when your production volume is low and you are paying off your new manufacturing line.

However, the money they have from Roadster deposits only exists due to the Roadster. So, unless they spent all that, the Roadster is a net plus for cash on hand.

 

[gavine]

I’ll bet the SpaceX option will make the Roadster great in the snow. Probably the best snow car ever. It’s already AWD, but thrusters could take it to the next level.

 

[slipnslider]

Given SpaeX has been using cold gas thrusters for years, you might want to concider the possibility that they have already addressed the issues (esp safety since this the latest gen that NASA seems happy with).



You and Oscar Meyer both.
They did not say they are on the edge of insolvency. Elon stated a normal business strategy of not selling the lowest cost/ lowest profit product when your production volume is low and you are paying off your new manufacturing line.

However, the money they have from Roadster deposits only exists due to the Roadster. So, unless they spent all that, the Roadster is a net plus for cash on hand.

Elons said they could sell the expensive models first and live, or sell the cheap model first and die. That implies serious financial limitations. Spending on useless rocket thrusters is not what you should be doing if your resources are that limited.

And putting gas thrusters on a space ship is irrelevant to putting them on a car. I haven't seen any space rockets commuting down the freeway lately.

 

[mongo]

Elons said they could sell the expensive models first and live, or sell the cheap model first and die. That implies serious financial limitations. Spending on useless rocket thrusters is not what you should be doing if your resources are that limited.

Selling 1/4 the target volume at 1/2 the target price only brings in 1/8 the target revenue. With higher GM for the upper options, it would be an even bigger hit to the gross profits which pay the bills. Even a million dollars in R&D doesn't shift that equation much.

Base 3 - 35k - 15% GM, 5.25k
LR AWD PUP EAP 65k? 25% GM 16.25k
So Tesla generates roughly 3 x the gross profit per car with the higher option version. If they can profit selling the high end at the current volumes, they could also profit selling three times the number of base version of vehicle. However, since the line is not up 10k/week, that is not an option.

And putting gas thrusters on a space ship is irrelevant to putting them on a car. I haven't seen any space rockets commuting down the freeway lately.

SpaceX tests everything here on Earth before deploying it in space. Therefore, they have tested cold gas thrusters on Earth and may have ideas regarding noise reduction techniques. They most definitely have experience with safety.

 

[VT_EE]

How do you brake from 60mph to 0 mph in 50 feet? How do you jump over obstacles in case of an emergency?
How do you travel safely on the highway at 400km/h if you can't brake and turn at 3g to avoid death?

Another thing that traditional aero doesn't get you is efficiency if you optimize for safety and perf. If you make a car with very sticky tires, very high drag and very high downforce all the time, that's not good at all when it comes to fuel.
This kind of super-active aero allows Tesla to have low drag and downforce under normal conditions and a great flexibility to deploy just what is needed, when needed while using a lot less fuel.
This is like finally getting access to an opposable thumb.

Maybe this is what KITT used in Knight Rider to jump over obstacles.

 

[slipnslider]

Selling 1/4 the target volume at 1/2 the target price only brings in 1/8 the target revenue. With higher GM for the upper options, it would be an even bigger hit to the gross profits which pay the bills. Even a million dollars in R&D doesn't shift that equation much.

Base 3 - 35k - 15% GM, 5.25k
LR AWD PUP EAP 65k? 25% GM 16.25k
So Tesla generates roughly 3 x the gross profit per car with the higher option version. If they can profit selling the high end at the current volumes, they could also profit selling three times the number of base version of vehicle. However, since the line is not up 10k/week, that is not an option.



SpaceX tests everything here on Earth before deploying it in space. Therefore, they have tested cold gas thrusters on Earth and may have ideas regarding noise reduction techniques. They most definitely have experience with safety.

Oh they MAY HAVE? Then why did elon say the system would be too loud to use in populated areas?

I guess you know about spaceX tech that he doesnt.

And rockets use their thrusters far away from any other people. That's why they're safe. IE - not on roads.

 

[Ben W]

Maybe this is what KITT used in Knight Rider to jump over obstacles.

Tesla Industries Two Thousand... great acronym

 

[Ben W]

PS did you notice how close the ejection speed is to the speed of sound or was that intentional?

You're right, this is not a coincidence. The theoretical maximum ISP of a cold gas thruster is defined by the speed of sound of the gas. In the case of pure nitrogen, this works out to about 76 seconds, and 73 seconds has been achieved in practice (in a vacuum). Air is a few percent less, so an ideal air thruster (at room temperature) could reach about 72 seconds. Factor in engineering realities, and you get 50-60 seconds.

 

[bambam4171]

I was thinking he was going to install not a flame thrower nozzles. Again, not for us in Urban areas : )

Just when I thought I get the perfect car for Zombie apocalypse...

 

[bambam4171]

Elon never jokes.

Bankwupt?