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Space X vs. the Establishment - ULA, US Air Force, etc.

Discussion in 'SpaceX' started by Bgarret, Apr 25, 2014.

  1. Bgarret

    Bgarret Model S ownin' Michigan scofflaw

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    #1 Bgarret, Apr 25, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2014
    Just finished watching Elon's presser in Washington DC. I thought another thread might be in order. I've written before that I don't think I have ever seen a person as gifted as Elon at taking on the status quo...let's see how this goes.
     
  2. delanman

    delanman Member

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    'Bring the ULA contract into the light... Sunlight is the best disinfectant.'
     
  3. GlennAlanBerry

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    Sometimes I wish Elon was a little bit more polished as a speaker, but it is very refreshing to see such candor and honest feeling from a CEO.

    I don't think there is any valid reason not to have competition for that contract.
     
  4. Bgarret

    Bgarret Model S ownin' Michigan scofflaw

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    There is no VALID reason, there is one very important contributing reason and that would be a certain Senator Richard C. Shelby (R) of Alabama.
     
  5. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member

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    Hope Elon has the money now to hire better lawyers. Tesla got beat in court several times that I recall.
     
  6. c041v

    c041v Member

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    Agreed. I was actually quite surprised at how genuinely hurt he seemed when discussing the ULA situation. A lot of his interviews are much more optimistic and focused in terms of the material. Was also surprised to see the jabs at Russia, I think it would have been fine to just say "in light of international events."

    Hard to believe he nearly used converted Russian ICBM's to start SpaceX!
     
  7. rolosrevenge

    rolosrevenge Dr. EVS

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    I'd say that in light of his previous dealings with Russia, the jabs were quite expected.
     
  8. ggies07

    ggies07 Active Member

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    I love how every article I've seen so far reads: "SpaceX suing..." Where is the one about the awesome breakthrough in reusable rockets???
     
  9. Bgarret

    Bgarret Model S ownin' Michigan scofflaw

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    It's because most reporters (and the public at large) are science illiterate and can't grasp the incredible leaps Space X is accomplishing...but political corruption, lawsuits...that we understand.
     
  10. ggies07

    ggies07 Active Member

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    hahaha. yeah.....just found one though!

    Elon Musk Breakthrough in Rocket Technology - Yahoo News
     
  11. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member

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  12. setherme

    setherme Member

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    #12 setherme, Apr 25, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
  13. Mitthrawnuruodo

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  14. Bgarret

    Bgarret Model S ownin' Michigan scofflaw

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    It reads more like the old McCain, before he ran for president...the real maverick and war hero. That was a quick shot across the bow and a nice counter balance to the mealy mouthed Shelby. I say go get em war hero.
     
  15. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    Agree. He probably isn't running again so no longer feels pressure from certain groups he had to pay attention to during his run.
    John McCain Hints At Possible Retirement At End Of Current Term
     
  16. JRod0802

    JRod0802 Member

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    I just thought I'd point out that this isn't true. Elon considered buying Russian ICBMs so he could send a greenhouse to Mars to drum up international support for a mission to Mars. When the cost ended up being prohibitively high, he began to realize that the reason we're not on Mars yet isn't due to lack of ambition, but lack of an inexpensive launch vehicle. It was at that point that he decided to start SpaceX - to create an inexpensive launch vehicle himself.

    I highly recommend this article, previously posted to the "Elon Musk" thread:

    Article:
    Elon Musk Interview - Elon Musk SpaceX Interview - Esquire

    Where it was discussed on this forum:
    Elon Musk - Page 45

    Here's a relevant part:

     
  17. Mitthrawnuruodo

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    Itwas well delivered. However, I just have a hard time finding respect for politicians that say one thing and do another, and I refuse to forget like most the citizens who vote for these people.

    Means I don't like many politicians :)

    I came to the conclusion last night that the USAF is likely in a bind and will have to cave. That was before I found this letter too.
     
  18. JRod0802

    JRod0802 Member

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  19. HVM

    HVM Savolainen

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    SpaceX tried prevent forming of ULA in 2005 but was dismissed for not be ready to compete in the EELV market. Now SpaceX have more merits to compete and it seem that ULA is pushing back more firmly.

    Sorry for forbidden crossposting but this is official ULA's response:

    SpaceX Actions are Irresponsible


    SpaceX, through their judicial filings and their congressional supporters, is now attempting to instruct the executive branch in how to impose and monitor sanctions against Russia.

    In their most recent filing with the court, SpaceX chastises the Department of the Treasury for improperly interpreting the sanctions Treasury itself is chartered to interpret and enforce.

    In spite of the fact that four separate cabinet level departments — Justice, State, Commerce and Treasury—formally declared that “payments to NPO Energomash would not directly or indirectly contravene [sanctions],” SpaceX continues to irresponsibly push the issue.

    The SpaceX argument, if followed, would lead to a dangerous expansion of sanctions far beyond the intent of those currently in place. The SpaceX logic would potentially apply to any U.S. entity engaged in any activity with any Russian entity, far beyond the intent of current foreign policy.

    By meddling in foreign policy, SpaceX risks destabilizing a delicate international situation, and distracts administration officials at a critical time, ultimately harming the interests and security of the nation.
    SpaceX purports to be taking this stand on principle, in a patriotic effort to ensure the laws of the land are upheld. But SpaceX’s patriotic zeal is limited to an injunction against NPO Energomash, who just happens to be the engine supplier for SpaceX’s most serious competition, the Atlas V.

    If motivated by ideology, SpaceX should be just as concerned about many other activities involving U.S and Russian space cooperation. SpaceX attempts to link NPO Energomash to Deputy Prime Minister Dmitri Rogozin through ROSCOSMOS, the Russian equivalent of NASA. Under SpaceX’s logic, for example, all the payments by NASA to ROSCOSMOS for Soyuz launches and other support to the International Space Station (ISS) should also be sanctioned, eliminating U.S. access to the station. Additionally, SeaLaunch should be sanctioned since it uses an engine sold by NPO Energomash. This would harm Ukraine, the makers of the first stage for SeaLaunch.

    In fact, based on its overriding moral concern over cooperation with Russia, SpaceX should forgo its ISS cargo supply contracts which directly benefit Russia as a participant in the ISS program.

    But SpaceX is not advocating other injunctions nor offering to give up its own missions that benefit Russia. Their patriotism on this issue is merely a façade to hide an overt strategy to eliminate their most serious competitor and avoid the prudent and rigorous process established by the Air Force to legitimately become certified and compete for critical national security launches.

    George Sowers, Ph.D.
    VP, Strategic Architecture
    United Launch Alliance

     
  20. Mario Kadastik

    Mario Kadastik Active Member

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    So because they cannot address the competition aspect of the 36 cores they only address the sanctions and then of course go overboard with it. Well I do agree with them though. NASA should stop buying tickets from Russians to get their astronauts to space. They should accelerate SpaceX program to human rating and use them. So the idea is correct ;) However the reference to NASA ISS resupply missions is idiotic as that contains components from all countries, not just Russian and it doesn't necessarily depend on the russian components. Also, it's an ongoing existing station, the ATLAS V rockets are basically new rockets (I doubt the 36 cores that have been ordered have all their components already ready, more likely they'd source engines from Russia still).

    But if one wants to sanction Russia, then buying rockets is not the proper thing. The same goes for French and their military ship sales to Russia. Both should be banned right now to hurt Russia. Especially if there are alternatives.
     

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