SpaceX vs. Everyone - ULA, NG, Boeing, Lockheed, etc.

[Nikxice]

The partial Saturn failure that bxr140 could have been referring to did occur on Apollo 13. The second stage center engine shut down prematurely due to a phenomenon known as pogo oscillation. First discovered on the unmanned Apollo 6 flight, the problem was reduced during later launches. In the case of 13, the four remaining second stage engines burned longer than originally planned, believe the single third stage also compensated with an extended burn time. Paraphrasing from the movie, Hanks said something along the lines of.......There was our glitch for the mission.

 

[ggr]

Both F9 (total) failures were in the second stage. So you could say that the first stage has a 100% success rate. Well, almost; there was a single engine failure on the first flight, but extending the burn saved the main mission. There was a second satellite taken up on a "best effort" basis, that didn't enter the proper orbit.

 

[macpacheco]

It seems all of the US Government customers of access to Space are already fully open for doing business with SpaceX.
NASA has been a customer since day one.
First national recon office satellite launched successfully.
SpaceX won the GPS III-3 launch.
USAF officials are already saying they're open to joining the re used booster bandwagon, but obviously no list of demands specified. Wait until a half a dozen boosters have been reflown and it will be a done deal.
BTW, 2nd booster to be reflown already known, its BulgariaSat-1 now NET mid June 2017 launch sequence is Inmarsat 5 F4, CRS-11 and BulgariaSat-1.

I quote the one of the pathways to certification, 13 successful launches, turn over the paperwork and you're automatically certified. The most likely pathway for USAF/NRO to use reflown boosters is achieve that 13th reflight before the first USAF/NRO reflight is to take place. It might be even easier than that, but 13 reflights now seems likely until end of 2018. Once the 3rd successful reflight happens most customers are on board. Once the 6th successful reflight all commercial customers will be asking about that reflight discount...

 

[Grendal]

ULA gets a nice little check from the government:

A new contract highlights the difference between “new” and “old” space

 

[Cosmacelf]

ULA gets a nice little check from the government:

A new contract highlights the difference between “new” and “old” space

That's a small amount considering the money they have to pay back under the table to the contracting officers (or hire them at a future date, whatever).

The sooner SpaceX puts ULA out of business the better!

 

[Jersey Shore Tom]

That's a small amount considering the money they have to pay back under the table to the contracting officers (or hire them at a future date, whatever).

The sooner SpaceX puts ULA out of business the better!

Is it really necessary to claim that specific people, NASA Contracting Officers, are corrupt without evidence? I have no clue what you do, but I am certain you would be pissed to be publicly called out by some anonymous person on the internet with a charge that could interfere with your job.

On the other hand if you have evidence you should be calling NASA's IG so they can prosecute.

 

[bxr140]

The sooner SpaceX puts ULA out of business the better!

That's a terrible perspective.

I want the space industry to evolve into the future, not devolve into a monopoly. All evidence points to Elon sharing the same general semntiment when it comes to his disruptive influence with spacex (and Tesla). What ULA needs, imho, is a plan/outlook/philosophy/charter/whatever that is more suited to the future spacex is creating, and not one based on the history that ULA (and their predecessors) have experienced.

The sooner spacex influences ULA to do THAT, the better...

 

[Cosmacelf]

Geez guys, I guess I forgot to put a sarcasm tag on my snarky comment about ULA corruption. It was sarcasm, not a charge since, like, I didn't provide any evidence. As far as putting ULA out of business, well, opinions can differ but I doubt that such an organization can change that much and be competitive on a level playing field to an entrepreneurial juggernaut like SpaceX. ULA could survive, but not on a level playing field.

 

[Grendal]

That's a terrible perspective.

I want the space industry to evolve into the future, not devolve into a monopoly. All evidence points to Elon sharing the same general semntiment when it comes to his disruptive influence with spacex (and Tesla). What ULA needs, imho, is a plan/outlook/philosophy/charter/whatever that is more suited to the future spacex is creating, and not one based on the history that ULA (and their predecessors) have experienced.

The sooner spacex influences ULA to do THAT, the better...

Which has happily happened. ULA is streamlining. They seem to be willing to look at and even use innovative concepts. This is indicated by the fact they are willing to go with Blue Origin's BE-4 instead of the old school Aerojet Rocketdyne's AR-1 for their new, less expensive, Vulcan. ULA has lots of sins from their past which includes some shifty maneuvers against SpaceX. That seems to be a thing of the past. The CEO has accepted change and is well aware that SpaceX has surpassed the abilities of the Atlas V and its Russian RD-180 engine. The company is marketing itself as best in can in the environment and pointing out their strengths to buyers. The last thing I would want is the good engineers at ULA to lose their jobs. They've thoroughly trimmed their workforce down as it is to stay competitive.

Personally, I care about space and having America have two launch providers doing the grunt work is fine with ULA being the more expensive choice. I have a bigger issue with SLS, since it is still old school and never going to even be what it is marketed to be. It is just a jobs program and ultimately a huge waste of time and money. Far more heinous than ULA is now.

 

[Grendal]

This is a really big one:

https://www.usnews.com/news/news/ar...wins-launch-of-us-air-force-x-37b-space-plane

So SpaceX get to launch a really unique experimental craft for the Air Force.

It will launch on a F9 in August.

 

[miimura]

This is a really big one:

https://www.usnews.com/news/news/ar...wins-launch-of-us-air-force-x-37b-space-plane

So SpaceX get to launch a really unique experimental craft for the Air Force.

It will launch on a F9 in August.

Wow. I did NOT see that coming...

 

[Electroman]

So they will strap that plane on the back of F9, like the Space shuttle strapped to the big orange tank ?

 

[Mike1080i]

So they will strap that plane on the back of F9, like the Space shuttle strapped to the big orange tank ?

It'll ride on top inside the fairing just like it does on an Atlas V.

 

[dpeilow]

Just came here to post this but you guys beat me

More here: SpaceX Will Launch Next Secret X-37B Mission for US Air Force


How heavy is this thing? Can it launch on a single core F9?

 

[macpacheco]

Just came here to post this but you guys beat me

More here: SpaceX Will Launch Next Secret X-37B Mission for US Air Force


How heavy is this thing? Can it launch on a single core F9?

Its claimed to be around 5 tons. For its target orbit (lower energy than CRS launches), F9 can launch at least 11 tons to its target orbit and still RTLS, or 15 tons with ASDS recovery. Those are likely pure Block III F9 specs, but the X-37B launch will at least use the Block IV upper stage, and perhaps by then the Block IV booster will be flying too (likely adding 1-3 tons to those figures).
X-37B is mostly hollow. It needs the size to provide enough lever for the tail to be effective, also its probably required to handle severe re-entry turbulence.

 

[Grendal]

Just came here to post this but you guys beat me

More here: SpaceX Will Launch Next Secret X-37B Mission for US Air Force


How heavy is this thing? Can it launch on a single core F9?

It's light enough and only a LEO launch so it should be a fairly easy RTLS.

Its claimed to be around 5 tons. For its target orbit (lower energy than CRS launches), F9 can launch at least 11 tons to its target orbit and still RTLS, or 15 tons with ASDS recovery. Those are likely pure Block III F9 specs, but the X-37B launch will at least use the Block IV upper stage, and perhaps by then the Block IV booster will be flying too (likely adding 1-3 tons to those figures).
X-37B is mostly hollow. It needs the size to provide enough lever for the tail to be effective, also its probably required to handle severe re-entry turbulence.

There are only 2 Block 3 2nd stages left according to Hans K. They will be used for BulgariaSat and Iridium 2. Every 2nd stage being made is now Block IV. As far as I am aware SpaceX has already upgraded the first stage booster to Block IV since it is all internal changes. I could be wrong about that. If you know more, please share.

 

[macpacheco]

Speculation is the booster is still Block III, but the upper stage already Block IV, based on detailed external analysis of pics.
Externally the boosters look exactly the same as a Block III, the upper stage had changes since NROL-76.
I add to that, if SpaceX already had the full Block IV flying, Elon Musk would have already tweeted it, he loves the publicity.

 

[Cosmacelf]

X-37B is mostly hollow. It needs the size to provide enough lever for the tail to be effective, also its probably required to handle severe re-entry turbulence.

Is it? Or will it be forever hollow? Seems like a nice place to put some super secret weapon system...

 

[Mike1080i]

X-37B is mostly hollow. It needs the size to provide enough lever for the tail to be effective, also its probably required to handle severe re-entry turbulence.

Is it? Or will it be forever hollow? Seems like a nice place to put some super secret weapon system...

I wouldn't think it's very hollow, except for the payload bay which isn't likely to be empty when it's flying. Whatever payloads it carries, they aren't that large as the payload bay is just 7 × 4 ft (2.1 × 1.2 m).

Edit to add graphic from space.com:

 

[macpacheco]

Is it? Or will it be forever hollow? Seems like a nice place to put some super secret weapon system...

Just a reasonable conclusion comparing its volume vs its estimated mass. But as long as it goes to LEO, SpaceX can handle twice the mass with F9+ASDS recovery.
Another assumption is its size has spare room for more than larger experiment bay.
Think about it, if I were designing such a thing, I would make it as large as it fits on the fairings it needs to launch inside, no smaller.