We will see if that continues to be true when SpaceX starts deploying StarLink.
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SpaceX F9 - 16th Reuse - SAOCOM 1A - SLC-4E
- Thread starter Grendal
- Start date
For sure when launch demand goes up then launch rate will go up...but...@ecarfan’s point was that there’s no cause/effect between RTLS capability and launch rate.
It’s very possible that the constellations won’t use RTLS anyway. You can lift more mass with a barge landing for incrementally higher cost.
Indeed. I was thinking in terms of Starlink and the quantity of launches needed. RTLS will help launch rate to hit the FCC imposed time limit for constellation population.
Every 24 hours vs every 3-4 days.
Do you really think Starlink launches will be mass limited rather than something else like fairing volume or target orbits? In the webcast, the host specifically said that they could turn around much faster with RTLS because they plan to refurbish at Vandenburg between launches.
Ah, I think I see the confusion.
Was related to West coast launches vs East coast (polar vs equatorial). RTLS doesn't change where people launch from (frequency of location use).
RTLS does change the max rate the site can have.
Based on constellations studies I've seen, it is very likely both. From what I've seen constellations are essentially solving both the volume and mass problem at the same time (target/injection/insertion orbit is a function of the mass problem), often with number of spacecraft per launch as a constant that more or less bounds mass and volume. And...number of units/launch is a pretty important number too, as it informs the very important to-orbit price/unit, which of course is what normal companies (so maybe not SpaceX...) are using for their business model. Anyway, it is certainly a very valid question to ask whether Starlink is solving for RTLS or ASDS, and since I don't work for SpaceX I can't say for certain where Starlink will fall.
That said, while I didn't spent a lot of Googs time on this, it seems like you're looking at 20-30% and possibly even more mass improvement on ASDS over RTLS. That's pretty huge. That's a lot more spacecraft per launch, and given the practical global launch capacity ramp up over the next decade or so--specifically, within the timeframe of all the big constellations--launching more spacecraft at a time is definitely going to be desirable.
Yes, absolutely. RTLS absolutely turns around a stage faster than ASDS, for obvious reasons.
Hand-waving past all the roadblocks on the range side (clearance to launch will absolutely be the practical long pole for many years to come), the max rate of a site is really dictated by how quickly the LP (and LZ, where applicable) can be turned around. RTLS capability is not a real limiting factor on the launch rate because spaceX can simply build more rockets/barges for ASDS. Conversely, building a new launch facility is significantly more difficult...if not still ultimately just a financial problem. Either way, its basically the Sea Launch problem, v2.0. Except, marginally humorously, now a land launch problem. Or maybe a sea landing problem?
So FCC is definitely a bit of a pickle...if you're asking me the regulations will be relaxed for all the constellations as time goes on. While hardball is probably okay right now, there's ultimately too much to lose on all sides when it comes to booting SpaceX/Oneweb/Telesat/Whoever else (I don't think Apple has filed yet...have they?) off a frequency band because a deadline set 6-8+ years prior was missed.
e-FTW
New electron smell
ULR: Unexpected Launch Report!
This launch had been on my radar for a while. Living where I do, it was my first chance to see a SpaceX launch and landing. And take the new Model 3 on an inaugural road trip. My wife was into it, aside from the “what else are we going to do around there” question. Fair point.
But still, I had figured we would stay in Santa Barbara (a few hotels we like are there), and the evening launch made for an easy schedule. Bonus: a few of the fine folks on this thread were going to attend.
In the end though, we needed a break and some down time, so we opted to plan a 3 day weekend in Kings Canyon and Sequoia National Park by taking the Monday off. Highly recommended, less packed than Yosemite, and still very impressive. We would be well over 200 miles away, in the mountains, so I forget all about the launch. There will be another time.
We find this AirBNB:
My friend had lent me his telescope and we enjoyed some Mars viewing the first night, after a big rainstorm. As you can see, that place had two (2!) concrete telescope pads. I also found a convenient outlet to trickle charge the S (the 3 had not been delivered yet).
Second day was all hiking, disconnecting and enjoying nature. It was great!
On the second night, we are having homemade chili by the fire pit (at photographer's POV in the above pic), as we were cleared for outside fires (rainstorm, remember?).
At one point, my wife, sitting to my left, points to something to my right and asks: “What is THAT?”
I look over, and there is a red/orange light in the distance, 45° to my right. I think to myself: I don’t remember seeing a radio or telecom tower on that hill last night. Weird.
I say : “That seems high for a radio tower. Aliens, right? Haha!”
We stare in silence for a few seconds. We have a sip of our glasses.
Man I really am relaxed.
Wife: “Yes, that is odd”
I love fire pits. What a beautiful night. Orange light getting higher...
...
Me: “OH! ... UMM... SPACEX!!!”
I get up, stare some more.
TELESCOPE!
I run and get the telescope from the patio, and I set it down on the concrete pad and start to try and spot the Falcon 9.
Just look with your eyes man, this stuff happened fast!
I look up, and by now, we can see the longer, red plume from the middle of the first stage burn.
My wife tells me to forget about the scope, and just look. Smart woman!
We both look for a bit, and then:
Me: “MECO! ... SECO! No, I mean second engine startup! LOL ... We can see EVERYTHING!”
And so on. We saw separation, thrusters spinning the first stage around, then I trained the cope in the second stage. And the plume was so huge that the scope was not that useful frankly. The plume was the dominant feature in the sky, like at least two outstretched hands next to each other. Although, since the second stage was moving mostly straight away from us, I did not have to adjust the scope much.
Here's a crappy phone pic, with the lights from Fresno for scale:
Then we saw the entry burn (a long orange line in the sky) and the first half of the landing burn, before we lost the stage to the hills, kind of like one of the camera views showed:
This was awesome and unexpected!
As some else mentioned that they saw it from Mammoth and another from San Diego, a huge chunk of California can see these twilight launches. Don't assume you won't see it!
This launch had been on my radar for a while. Living where I do, it was my first chance to see a SpaceX launch and landing. And take the new Model 3 on an inaugural road trip. My wife was into it, aside from the “what else are we going to do around there” question. Fair point.
But still, I had figured we would stay in Santa Barbara (a few hotels we like are there), and the evening launch made for an easy schedule. Bonus: a few of the fine folks on this thread were going to attend.
In the end though, we needed a break and some down time, so we opted to plan a 3 day weekend in Kings Canyon and Sequoia National Park by taking the Monday off. Highly recommended, less packed than Yosemite, and still very impressive. We would be well over 200 miles away, in the mountains, so I forget all about the launch. There will be another time.
We find this AirBNB:
My friend had lent me his telescope and we enjoyed some Mars viewing the first night, after a big rainstorm. As you can see, that place had two (2!) concrete telescope pads. I also found a convenient outlet to trickle charge the S (the 3 had not been delivered yet).
Second day was all hiking, disconnecting and enjoying nature. It was great!
On the second night, we are having homemade chili by the fire pit (at photographer's POV in the above pic), as we were cleared for outside fires (rainstorm, remember?).
At one point, my wife, sitting to my left, points to something to my right and asks: “What is THAT?”
I look over, and there is a red/orange light in the distance, 45° to my right. I think to myself: I don’t remember seeing a radio or telecom tower on that hill last night. Weird.
I say : “That seems high for a radio tower. Aliens, right? Haha!”
We stare in silence for a few seconds. We have a sip of our glasses.
Man I really am relaxed.
Wife: “Yes, that is odd”
I love fire pits. What a beautiful night. Orange light getting higher...
...
Me: “OH! ... UMM... SPACEX!!!”
I get up, stare some more.
TELESCOPE!
I run and get the telescope from the patio, and I set it down on the concrete pad and start to try and spot the Falcon 9.
Just look with your eyes man, this stuff happened fast!
I look up, and by now, we can see the longer, red plume from the middle of the first stage burn.
My wife tells me to forget about the scope, and just look. Smart woman!
We both look for a bit, and then:
Me: “MECO! ... SECO! No, I mean second engine startup! LOL ... We can see EVERYTHING!”
And so on. We saw separation, thrusters spinning the first stage around, then I trained the cope in the second stage. And the plume was so huge that the scope was not that useful frankly. The plume was the dominant feature in the sky, like at least two outstretched hands next to each other. Although, since the second stage was moving mostly straight away from us, I did not have to adjust the scope much.
Here's a crappy phone pic, with the lights from Fresno for scale:
Then we saw the entry burn (a long orange line in the sky) and the first half of the landing burn, before we lost the stage to the hills, kind of like one of the camera views showed:
This was awesome and unexpected!
As some else mentioned that they saw it from Mammoth and another from San Diego, a huge chunk of California can see these twilight launches. Don't assume you won't see it!
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Hmmm... this stock photo of a 'dark matter hurricane' looks familiar...
e-FTW
New electron smell
That is hilarious!
Does the photo credit at the top right match up to who actually took the picture?
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
I didn't see any attribution for the photo. It's not on the article page, just the CNN home page.
e-FTW
New electron smell
I mean, the note at the top right of the picture you posted attributes it to one “David xyz - Getty Images”.
