SpaceX granted injunction in rocket launch suit against government

[yobigd20]

good news, SpaceX got the injunction to prohibit the joint venture between Lockheed Martin and Boeing from proceeding with plans to buy Russian-made rocket engines.

Elon Musks SpaceX granted injunction in rocket launch suit against Lockheed-Boeing - The Washington Post

 

[Krugerrand]

:smile:

 

[AnOutsider]

Good news. Now to win the contract. Though, I kind of feel even if they win it some folks might say he threw a hissy fit and got preferential treatment and went after government funds. I'm sure it'll get twisted somehow.

 

[Krugerrand]

Good news. Now to win the contract. Though, I kind of feel even if they win it some folks might say he threw a hissy fit and got preferential treatment and went after government funds. I'm sure it'll get twisted somehow.

Then those people should feel so inclined to pay the $300 million difference to the ULA, for each and every launch, out of their own pockets and save everyone else that monetary burden. Hissy fit and preferential treatment argument doesn't have a leg to stand on when there's real cost savings to the taxpayer.

 

[dsm363]

You'll never win with some people when they won't engage in an honest conversation. Sometimes being better or offering a better solution has to be enough.

 

[chickensevil]

Then those people should feel so inclined to pay the $300 million difference to the ULA, for each and every launch, out of their own pockets and save everyone else that monetary burden. Hissy fit and preferential treatment argument doesn't have a leg to stand on when there's real cost savings to the taxpayer.

If I am understanding what I have read about this correctly, this isn't just some minor savings either. This is the largest contract in the DoD clocking in at 14.4B (keeping in mind the entire DoD budget is at like 526.6B... so this is like 3% of the budget all by itself (granted this is a like 15 year contract or something... but still) To put it in perspective, the entire Marine Corps budget is less than half of this amount... That's right... an entire branch gets less money than this contract does...

 

[Zythryn]

Good news. Now to win the contract. Though, I kind of feel even if they win it some folks might say he threw a hissy fit and got preferential treatment and went after government funds. I'm sure it'll get twisted somehow.

I'm sure you are right. However, it will be tough for any US based media or citizen to support the Russians when we could instead be supporting an American company and saving taxpayer money.

 

[The Blue Owl]

I am not sure what is the best place to post this, but I thought it may be relevant for this thread:

Russia Pulls Space Cooperation in Response to Ukraine Sanctions

Here is a quote:

Moscow's measures would affect MK-33 and RD-180 engines which Russia supplies to the United States, Rogozin told a news conference. "We are ready to deliver these engines but on one condition that they will not be used to launch military satellites," he said.

 

[rolosrevenge]

I read that. I wish the powers that be hadn't killed the space shuttle program until after Dragon was crew certified. Because we look like idiots talking big about sanctions and then crawling on our bellies back to the Russians asking to buy a seat on their rocket.

 

[HVM]

Excluding NASA launches RD-180 is only used for DoD payloads...

 

[Doug_G]

There's the trampoline, as expected.

This will no doubt backfire on the Russians since ULA has access to the rocket designs, and are right now probably scrambling to bring production in-house. (Probably started doing that as soon as the sanctions noises started.) Of course it also plays into SpaceX's hand to an extent.

 

[HVM]

Starting RD-180 production in US is a multi-billion and nearly decade long process. Know how of the oxygen-rich (-> extreme corrosive) staged combustion, especially on metallurgy aspect of it, is limited in US.

There is only one on going design work of oxygen-rich (and fuel rich -> full flow) engine currently in US with no sympathy for ULA.

 

[Doug_G]

In that case, they may be pretty much screwed.

 

[Skotty]

According to an article I saw on one of the space forums I look over from time to time (can't remember which one), the injunction has already been lifted.

 

[Grendal]

According to an article I saw on one of the space forums I look over from time to time (can't remember which one), the injunction has already been lifted.

It was lifted on the 8th. It doesn't matter though since Russia decided to stop selling the engine to ULA anyway.

Russia Bans Rocket Engine Sales to U.S. Military - Bloomberg

Here is an article on the injunction being lifted:

SpaceX Lawsuit Uprooted By Federal Judge, US Air Force-ULA Deal Resumes - Space News - redOrbit

 

[The Blue Owl]

Quote from the above article posted by Grendal:

Referring to Rogozin’s comments, Rye said, “If recent news reports are accurate, it affirms that SpaceX’s irresponsible actions have created unnecessary distractions, threatened U.S. military satellite operations, and undermined our future relationship with the International Space Station.”

In other words, we relied on the Russians who proceeded to screw us, so now we're blaming SpaceX who's going to eat our lunch.

 

[Doug_G]

Yeah like SpaceX gave the Russians that idea. Sure. Nice spin. They had already intimated that they were going to retaliate.

 

[Bgarret]

I'm going to give this round to Mr. Elon Stark....he told Congress that they were vulnerable - many members of Congress, especially from Alabama, and senior Air Force and ULA brass scoffed at the idea of dependency on the Russians as a problem. It is a problem. If ULA could have produced the rockets in house without exorbitant CAPEX spending, they would have. If you are utilizing the cheapest method and still launching for $300-400 million per copy, the costs of creating, testing and certifying a new "domestically produced" launch system in 2 years....mind numbing. (although I wouldn't put it passed them to ask Congress for more that the $1 Billion they already get in order to "make the technology our own". In the Navy, we used to have a joke about the Air Force building swank golf courses on their bases and then going back to Congress for money for runways.).

And here is little ol' Space X, with American made and controlled, more advanced technology a few short development cycles from being a viable alternative. Well played Mr. Musk...well played.

McCain and some of the hawks are never going to let another US $ go to Russia for their engines. Too much cold warrior in that one.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

I'm going to give this round to Mr. Elon Stark....he told Congress that they were vulnerable - many members of Congress, especially from Alabama, and senior Air Force and ULA brass scoffed at the idea of dependency on the Russians as a problem.

Embarrassment is a powerful teacher, and many members of Congress are wiping the egg from their faces. Hopefully they learned a lesson from this dustup with Russia. Unfortunately, many members of Congress are also clearly really stupid, and stupid people often don't learn from their mistakes.

 

[dsm363]

Embarrassment is a powerful teacher, and many members of Congress are wiping the egg from their faces. Hopefully they learned a lesson from this dustup with Russia. Unfortunately, many members of Congress are also clearly really stupid, and stupid people often don't learn from their mistakes.

They probably know exactly what they are doing but as long as big Air Force bases or parts of rockets or weapon systems are built in their district they will vote on what keeps the jobs in their district and that may not be what is the best for the rest of the country or national security even.