SpaceX Internet Satellite Network: Starlink

[Todd Burch]

However none of SpaceX profits will flow to Tesla investors (other than some goodwill )

If SpaceX can provide really cheap internet service to Tesla vehicles, then Tesla doesn't have to pay AT&T larger sums of money.

Margins therefore increase on each car.

Profits therefore flow to my pocket Tesla shareholders.

 

[mongo]

Also, TSLA will have to buy these services at specified rates from SpaceX, and SpaceX will likely need to make all their services available to all parties at the same costs ...

I do not think there is a FCC regulation requiring fixed pricing to all for a private network system. Nor a requirement to share the mobile antenna technology needed.

As a non Tesla owner, my understanding is currently internet services are free. In future that might not be the case and yes they could monitize it some ..

Free to owners, but not free to Tesla. Tesla is paying cellular providers for coverage and data.

 

[Waiting4M3]

Semi-agree, but other players will not need Starlink to do network, GPS stuff ? Also, TSLA will have to buy these services at specified rates from SpaceX, and SpaceX will likely need to make all their services available to all parties at the same costs ...

Edit. As a non Tesla owner, my understanding is currently internet services are free. In future that might not be the case and yes they could monitize it some ..

Other carmakers should be able to buy the same data access from SpaceX at the same price, but without building their cars to take advantage of it, for example software update, autonomous driving ghost training data, what would be their ROI on that?

 

[elasalle]

If SpaceX can provide really cheap internet service to Tesla vehicles, then Tesla doesn't have to pay AT&T larger sums of money.

Margins therefore increase on each car.

Profits therefore flow to my pocket Tesla shareholders.

if SpaceX undercuts the telcos, the savings I will make on my internet and TV bills at home will be far greater ... that is what I am looking for.

Also don't forget all the recent changes in Net Neutrality rules which will now allow ISP's to choose and provide preferences. This is what I am really looking for changes in. In big picture, this is what I think matters.

 

[GoTslaGo]

Other carmakers should be able to buy the same data access from SpaceX at the same price, but without building their cars to take advantage of it, for example software update, autonomous driving ghost training data, what would be their ROI on that?

All pricing will likely be negotiated. Enough competition out there, that it should be. It would only make sense that SpaceX would give preferential rates (free?) to Tesla... Anyone and everyone else should pay something. Issue would be whether Starlink would be cheaper/competitive with current incumbents.

IIRC Audi offers internet access via TMobile (at least last I looked—several years ago). The first year was included with the car purchase, after that, you were on the hook to keep it, or you could cancel.

 

[ValueAnalyst]

All pricing will likely be negotiated. Enough competition out there, that it should be. It would only make sense that SpaceX would give preferential rates (free?) to Tesla... Anyone and everyone else should pay something. Issue would be whether Starlink would be cheaper/competitive with current incumbents.

IIRC Audi offers internet access via TMobile (at least last I looked—several years ago). The first year was included with the car purchase, after that, you were on the hook to keep it, or you could cancel.

Not sure if SpaceX can give "preferential rates" to Tesla without making the same available to others, but not sure if others have cars that can handle what Tesla's can handle either, or if other automakers would be willing.

 

[Kenypowa]

Not sure if SpaceX can give "preferential rates" to Tesla without making the same available to others, but not sure if others have cars that can handle what Tesla can handle either.

Why not? SpaceX is not a publicly traded company.

 

[ValueAnalyst]

Why not? SpaceX is not a publicly traded company.

I think it has less to do with public/private and more with anti-competition laws. I don’t know; not an expert on this.

 

[Lessmog]

Maybe FCC will go the way of EPA &al ... ? There is already talk of privatising ISS. Perhaps other TLA's too? FAA? DOJ? USAF, NASA? (No, that's a 4LA)

 

[ggies07]

I think it has less to do with public/private and more with anti-competition laws. I don’t know; not an expert on this.

hahahahaha. Tell that to the dealerships

 

[Reciprocity]

Not sure if SpaceX can give "preferential rates" to Tesla without making the same available to others, but not sure if others have cars that can handle what Tesla's can handle either, or if other automakers would be willing.

They dont have to, they can give preferential treatment to Vehicles over Homes or businesses for example. This is the opposite of net neutrality, which is the current law of the land with Net Neutrality dead. It was killed for this specific reason, that companies that built out networks can charge what they want and do not have to charge everyone the exact same. They can give preferential treatment to the certain traffic and charge different rates. I think if they where deemed a utility and there wasnt competition, there would be an issue. But I dont see that being in an issue in this case.

 

[DragonWatch]

Bottom line!!! Bears please list the current big auto makers willing to plung mega bucks into satellites so they can over the air update their fleet ~ even if I own my MX? Did I hear another pin drop?

Bottom line, what auto company has entertained the idea providing their own satellite music service? Okay, maybe someone, somewhere, sometime will consider it.

Bottom line. . . Who owns the current satellites you enjoy using for your GPS. Remember, I started using GPS back in 1983 and we needed three satellites within line of sight to function. Most taxpayer satellites are used free of charge by corporations, if I am not mistaken.

I would switch to Tesla internet service faster than the fastest computer in existence today ~ bar none ~ amen.

If net neutrality is no longer open and free ~ Tesla wins the game

 

[elasalle]

Bottom line!!! Bears please list the current big auto makers willing to plung mega bucks into satellites so they can over the air update their fleet ~ even if I own my MX? Did I hear another pin drop?

Bottom line, what auto company has entertained the idea providing their own satellite music service? Okay, maybe someone, somewhere, sometime will consider it.

Bottom line. . . Who owns the current satellites you enjoy using for your GPS. Remember, I started using GPS back in 1983 and we needed three satellites within line of sight to function. Most taxpayer satellites are used free of charge by corporations, if I am not mistaken.

I would switch to Tesla internet service faster than the fastest computer in existence today ~ bar none ~ amen.

If net neutrality is no longer open and free ~ Tesla wins the game

Not a bear definitely but ...

US Population - 323 M
US Households - 126.22 M
Tesla owners in US -- 200K ?

If I wanted to start a business, which of the above should I target?

 

[mongo]

Not a bear definitely but ...

US Population - 323 M
US Households - 126.22 M
Tesla owners in US -- 200K ?

If I wanted to start a business, which of the above should I target?

Option D: Earth 7.442 billion

 

[ValueAnalyst]

Bottom line!!! Bears please list the current big auto makers willing to plung mega bucks into satellites so they can over the air update their fleet ~ even if I own my MX? Did I hear another pin drop?

Bottom line, what auto company has entertained the idea providing their own satellite music service? Okay, maybe someone, somewhere, sometime will consider it.

Bottom line. . . Who owns the current satellites you enjoy using for your GPS. Remember, I started using GPS back in 1983 and we needed three satellites within line of sight to function. Most taxpayer satellites are used free of charge by corporations, if I am not mistaken.

I would switch to Tesla internet service faster than the fastest computer in existence today ~ bar none ~ amen.

If net neutrality is no longer open and free ~ Tesla wins the game

Mega bucks? Couldn’t one FH launch could possibly put a few thousand femtosatellites in space? That’s a few hundred mil afaik.

 

[BioSehnsucht]

Starlink will have trouble with tunnels and crowded downtown skyscraper areas, etc, similar to satellite TV/radio/etc. Starlink also will have some limit to the number of subscribers it can handle per square mile (or whatever area metric you prefer) without bandwidth starvation (similar to terrestrial cellular networks). So if Tesla uses Starlink in the future, it is likely Tesla would still include a LTE/GSM/whatever cellular service as a backup when Starlink is unavailable and/or underperforming for a given location.

With a clear view of the sky, and not in a crowded (in terms of Starlink subscriber) area, Starlink would provide high bandwidth, low latency (the planned LEO and VLEO constellations will in some cases have better latency than terrestrial options) coverage, and likely do so at a highly competitive rate, even without having to give Tesla special pricing.

After all, typical cellular data service is usually some combination of limited bandwidth, limited data quota, or "unlimited" with scare quotes in which it eventually goes from fast to slow depending on your usage. But all these pricing schemes are just to extract more money from subscribers, none of the options guarantee a minimum speed (at most a maximum speed), so it would be more honest to have a flat rate. If Starlink doesn't participate in the pricing shenanigans, it could be cheaper just by being more honest.

 

[Reciprocity]

Option D: Earth 7.442 billion

Option E: All of the above.

 

[elasalle]

Option E: All of the above.

Both answers correcto I think SpaceX/EM thinking big ..

 

[mongo]

They dont have to, they can give preferential treatment to Vehicles over Homes or businesses for example. This is the opposite of net neutrality, which is the current law of the land with Net Neutrality dead. It was killed for this specific reason, that companies that built out networks can charge what they want and do not have to charge everyone the exact same. They can give preferential treatment to the certain traffic and charge different rates. I think if they where deemed a utility and there wasnt competition, there would be an issue. But I dont see that being in an issue in this case.

Agreeing. Depends on if they are classed as a common carrier, I think. Since they are secondary to the existing data markets, and do not need public easements (other than frequency allocation), they might not be tied to many of the regulations. Also a difference in terms of access points. If uplink station is at Fremont/ Hawthorne, not a lot others can do without a fat connection through there...

(Regarding Option E: Is the US no longer part of Earth?)

 

[mongo]

Starlink will have trouble with tunnels and crowded downtown skyscraper areas, etc, similar to satellite TV/radio/etc. Starlink also will have some limit to the number of subscribers it can handle per square mile (or whatever area metric you prefer) without bandwidth starvation (similar to terrestrial cellular networks). So if Tesla uses Starlink in the future, it is likely Tesla would still include a LTE/GSM/whatever cellular service as a backup when Starlink is unavailable and/or underperforming for a given location.

With 12k satellites in low/fast orbits, occlusion is less of an issue. Tunnels can be handled though per-buffering of needed data. SpaceX/ Tesla/ Boring can also add their own local repeaters similar to current satellite/ cellular systems.