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SpaceX plans ocean platform landing

Discussion in 'SpaceX' started by Grendal, Oct 28, 2014.

  1. Grendal

    Grendal Active Member

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    SpaceX Will Try to Land Rocket on Floating Ocean Platform, Elon Musk Says

    It looks like they will be trying for a barge landing in December. If it is successful then SpaceX will re-launch that rocket and we will have our first official reusable SpaceX rocket!

    That will have every other launch company trembling in their boots and scrambling to match the effort.

    THIS is what we call disruption!
     
  2. Thread Summary

    Thread Summary Member Generated Post Wiki

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    #2 Thread Summary, Oct 30, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2015
    Space X Launches & Landings, Videos









    SpaceX
    Past Launches &Landings

    Date TypeLaunchPayloadOrbitCustomer //
    Landing attempt in bold in row below
    +/-Video
    Jun 4, 10 Falcon 9v1.0CC LC40Dragon Spacecraft Qualification Unit LEOSpace X+Video
    Dec 8, 10 Falcon 9v1.0CC LC40NASA COTS - Demo1LEONASA Commercial Orbital Transportation Services+Video
    May 22, 12 Falcon 9v1.0CC LC40NASA COTS - Demo C2+LEO NASA Commercial Orbital Transportation Services+Video
    Oct 8, 12 Falcon 9v1.0CC LC40Primary Payload Space X CRS - 1LEONASA Commercial Resupply Services+Video
    Oct 8, 12 Falcon 9v1.0CC LC40Secondary Payload Orbcomm-OG2LEOOrbcomm-
    Mar 1, 13 Falcon 9v1.0CC LC40Space X CRS-2LEONASA Commercial Resupply Services+Video
    Sep 29, 13 Falcon 9v1.1VAFB LC4ECASSIOPEPolarMDA Corp //+Video






    Propulsive return over water simulated test landing-
    Dec 3, 13 Falcon 9v1.1CC LC40SES - 8GTOSES+Video
    Jan 6, 14 Falcon 9v1.1CC LC40Thaicom 6GTOThaicom+Video
    Apr 18, 14 Falcon 9v1.1CC LC40Space X CRS - 3LEONASA Commercial Resupply Services //+Video

    First Dragon
    First booster with extendable legs
    CRS-3 First Stage Controlled descent test
    Video
    Jul 14, 14 Falcon 9v1.1CC LC40OG2 Mission 1 6 OG2 SattelitesLEOOrbcomm //+Video





    Falcon 9 First Stage Return ORBCOMM Mission
    Video
    Aug 5, 14 Falcon 9v1.1CC LC40Asia Sat 8GTOAsia Sat+Video
    Aug 22, 14Falcon 9v1.1


    Falcon 9 Static Fire Test
    Falcon 9 First Stage Reentry Footage From Plane
    +.
    Video
    Aug 22, 14Falcon 9-RMcG T

    F-9.1 Dev-1 Test-Video
    Sep 7, 14 Falcon 9v1.1CC LC40Asia Sat 6GTOAsia Sat+Video
    Sep 21, 14 Falcon 9v1.1CC LC40Space X CRS - 4LEONASA Commercial Resupply Services //+Video





    Controlled descent test
    Video
    Jan 10, 15 Falcon 9v1.1CC LC40Space X CRS - 5LEONASA Commercial Resupply Services //+Video



    Run out of hydraulic fluid
    CRS-5 First Stage Landing-Video
    Feb 11, 15 Falcon 9v1.1CC LC40DSCOVRL1US Air Force / NASA / NOAA //+Video



    Landed within 10m of target
    Test flight descent-
    Mar 2, 15Falcon 9v1.1CC LC40ABS - 3A Eutelsat 115 West BGTOAsia Broadcast Sattelite, Eutelsat (Satmex)+Video
    Apr 14, 15Falcon 9v1.1CC LC40Space X CRS - 6LEONASA Commercial Resupply Services //+Video



    Excess lateral velocity
    CRS-6 First Stage Landing Falcon landing vidme-Video
    Apr 27, 15Falcon 9v1.1CC LC40TurkmenAlem52E/MonacoSatGTOThales Alenia Space+Video








    Jun 28, 15Falcon 9v1.1CC LC40Space X CRS - 7LEONASA Commercial Resupply Services //-Video








    SpaceX2015Launch Schedule











    Jul 15, 15Falcon 9v1.1CC LC40 SES 9GTOSES

    Jul 22, 15Falcon 9v1.1VAFB
    SLC-4E
    Jason 3SSONASA / NOAA EUMETSAT CNES

    Mid 2015Falcon 9v1.1CC LC40Orbcomm-OG2
    11 OG2 Sattelites
    GTOOrbcomm

    3rd QuarterFalcon HeavyKSC
    LC39A
    Demo FlightTBDSpace X

    Sep 2, 15Falcon 9v1.1CC LC40Space X CRS - 8LEONASA Commercial Resupply Services //






    CRS-8 First Stage Landing

    3rd QuarterFalcon 9v1.1CC LC40JCSAT 14 Communications SatteliteGTOSky Perfect JSAT Corp

    4th QuarterFalcon 9v1.1CC LC40ABS - 3A Eutelsat 115 West BGTOAsia Broadcast Sattelite, Eutelsat (Satmex)

    Dec 9, 15Falcon 9v1.1CC LC40Space X CRS - 9
    NASA Commercial Resupply Services //






    CRS-9 First Stage Landing

    Q 1, 16Falcon 9v1.1CC LC40Amos 6GTOSpacecom
    Feb 13, 16Falcon 9v1.1CC LC40Space X CRS - 10
    NASA Commercial Resupply Services //





    CRS-10 First Stage Landing
    Space X Videos


    Jun 5, 2015Falling Back to Earth
    May 6, 2015Pad Abort Test, view from outside; Pad Abort Test, view from inside
    Apr 14, 2015CRS - 6 First Stage Landing
    Apr 14, 2015CRS - 6 Launch
    Apr 13, 2015CRS - 6 Launch Scrub
    Apr 9, 20154K Footage / Space X Launches
    Mar 1, 2015Space X ABS / Eutelsat 1 Mission
    Jan 27, 2015Falcon Heavy / Flight Animation
    Jan 10, 2015CRS - 5 Launch
    Jan 6, 2015CRS - 5 Launch Scrub
    Jan 1, 2015Space X Year In Review
    Dec 22, 2014Earth Timelapses, ESA, Alexander Gerst
    Nov 20, 2014Space X Rocket Tank Production /Timelapse
    Sep 20, 2014CRS - 4 Launch
    Sep 6, 2014AsiaSat 6 / Falcon 9 Launch
    Aug 14, 2014Falcon 9 First Stage Reentry Footage From Plane
    Aug 5, 2014AsiaSat 8 /Falcon 9 Sattelite Launch Webcast
    Jul 14, 2014Falcon 9 First Stage Return / ORBCOM Mission
    Jul 14, 2014Orbcomm OG2 / Falcon 9 Launch
    Jun 19, 2014F9R 1000m Fin Flight / Onboard Cam and Wide Shot
    May 27, 2014Space X SuperDraco Thruster Firing
    May 2, 2014F9R Fin Flight Test / 1000m
    Apr 18, 2014F9R Fin Flight Test / 250m
    Jan 6, 2014Mission Overview / THAICOM 6 Launch


     
  3. Dutchie

    Dutchie Member

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    Tweet

    Testing operation of hypersonic grid fins (x-wing config) going on next flight pic.twitter.com/O1tMSIXxsT

    landing ship

    Autonomous spaceport drone ship. Thrusters repurposed from deep sea oil rigs hold position within 3m even in a storm. pic.twitter.com/wJFOnGdt9w
     
  4. RubberToe

    RubberToe Supporting the greater good

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    I sure hope they show live video from the stage coming down, or at least from a camera on the platform. Buck Rogers would be proud.

    RT
     
  5. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    Oh wow, that floating platform makes it look all the more real. Can't wait for video of the event...
     
  6. Grendal

    Grendal Active Member

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  7. aronth5

    aronth5 Long Time Follower

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  8. hockeythug

    hockeythug Active Member

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    When all of this finally comes togehter it will be amazing to witness.
     
  9. rsquared99

    rsquared99 Member

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    Refuel on the landing platform and then fly back for a base landing. That is the answer to a question that had been bugging me. I hadn't considered that solution, so I'm obviously not thinking far enough out of the box. The adventure continues.
     
  10. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    I gather that the value of recapturing a used stage is worth all the extra fuel to land it as well as all the extra fuel of moving / positioning the landing platform, all the transport of staff to landing platform, etc? The fuel used to be able to reuse the booster starts to add up. It will probably take a lot of reused boosters to justify the cost of the landing platform too.

    Do the economics all add up? I suppose there is PR value is saying you reuse and recycle plus the geek wow factor even if the costs are high.
     
  11. JRod0802

    JRod0802 Member

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    #11 JRod0802, Nov 25, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014
    I remember at one point Elon saying that the cost of fuel to fully fuel a rocket is about $200,000 (although certainly they wouldn't need to fully fuel it to hop the first stage back to land). The cost of a new first stage, though, I'm going to guess is ~$30,000,000. Even if it costs them $300,000 to get the stage back, and $200,000 to refurbish it, that's still much better than spending $30,000,000 to build a new one.

    Of course the largest hit they take isn't in logistics, but in the fact that they'll only be able to launch about 60% the mass to LEO than they were previously able to launch due to the weight of the re-usability stuff (like leaving extra fuel in the tank, and putting legs on the rocket).
     
  12. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    Umm why only 60%? I would have thought it would be much higher. It doesn't need much power to land.
     
  13. JRod0802

    JRod0802 Member

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    I'm trying to remember my numbers here, but I think Elon said that only 4% or so of the mass at launch ends up in orbit. And that adding reusability brings that down to somewhere between 2% and 2.5% So that means they'd only be able to launch somewhere between 50% and 62.5% of what they were previously able to launch. (I guessed 60%).

    But this was from an interview from a while ago, and those numbers are quite rounded, and Elon seemed to not be quite sure of the final values since they hadn't done much actual testing at the time.

    Does anyone have any numbers on this that are more up-to-date?
     
  14. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

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    #14 ItsNotAboutTheMoney, Nov 25, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014
    Also should be factored is in that with reusability you can do more flights, because you significantly multiply your manufacturing-trips per year.

    But, for now, stage one (ho ho) is just to land the thing and see what happens.

    Here's another reusability thought. Imagine SpaceX has full reusability. 3 F9 engines fail in flight, so they can't get the cargo to orbit. SpaceX aborts the missions, lands the 3 pieces, checks them out, repairs, and then sends them up again. Not only could the kaboom cost be cut dramatically by re-use, but the ability to recover would cut the risk of cargo loss.
     
  15. Grendal

    Grendal Active Member

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    There seemed to be a decent amount of damage in the one engine failure. I would bet there would need to be a lot of repair needed if three engines failed. It would probably still be less than the price of building a new rocket from scratch.

    On that thought, I wonder how much of the rocket cost is the engines compared to the rocket body? How much is the cost of one Merlin engine? $1 million each?
     
  16. HVM

    HVM Savolainen

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    Musk also addressed the performance hit that results from reserving propellant for landing the first stage.
    “If we do an ocean landing (for testing purposes), the performance hit is actually quite small, maybe in the order of 15 percent. If we do a return to launch site landing, it’s probably double that, it’s more like a 30 percent hit (i.e., 30 percent of payload lost).”


    http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/10/musk-plans-reusability-falcon-9-rocket/


    Also remember Aerobraking...
     
  17. anticitizen13.7

    anticitizen13.7 Enemy of the Status Quo

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    LOL, this is going to be great for Doctor Who fans too. The Judoon (Rhinoceros-like alien space police) use ships that land like SpaceX rockets will land.
     
  18. aronth5

    aronth5 Long Time Follower

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    I expect once they are successful and prove landing is safe they won't have to land on a barge with the added complexity that it brings. A temporary solution since it adds unnecessary cost, time and requires more people.
     
  19. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    I wouldn't be so sure of that. It isn't obvious that the powers that be will allow rocket tail landings anywhere near human habitation. Maybe SpaceX will be allowed to create a new spaceport in the middle of nowhere requiring the building of many miles of road.
     
  20. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    The bigger problem is that by the time that the first stage expires it's a long ways downrange. For a Florida launch, it would be a major bit of fuel consumption for the stage to turn around and return to the continental US. Something may be possible if they launch from Texas. Unless there is some mid-atlantic island that is in an opportune location?
     

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