SpaceX plans ocean platform landing

[Grendal]

SpaceX Will Try to Land Rocket on Floating Ocean Platform, Elon Musk Says

It looks like they will be trying for a barge landing in December. If it is successful then SpaceX will re-launch that rocket and we will have our first official reusable SpaceX rocket!

That will have every other launch company trembling in their boots and scrambling to match the effort.

THIS is what we call disruption!

 

[Thread Summary]

Space X Launches & Landings, Videos

Space	X		Past Launches	&	Landings
Date	Type	Launch	Payload	Orbit	Customer // Landing attempt in bold in row below	+/-	Video
Jun 4, 10	Falcon 9v1.0	CC LC40	Dragon Spacecraft Qualification Unit	LEO	Space X	+	Video
Dec 8, 10	Falcon 9v1.0	CC LC40	NASA COTS - Demo1	LEO	NASA Commercial Orbital Transportation Services	+	Video
May 22, 12	Falcon 9v1.0	CC LC40	NASA COTS - Demo C2+	LEO	NASA Commercial Orbital Transportation Services	+	Video
Oct 8, 12	Falcon 9v1.0	CC LC40	Primary Payload Space X CRS - 1	LEO	NASA Commercial Resupply Services	+	Video
Oct 8, 12	Falcon 9v1.0	CC LC40	Secondary Payload Orbcomm-OG2	LEO	Orbcomm	-
Mar 1, 13	Falcon 9v1.0	CC LC40	Space X CRS-2	LEO	NASA Commercial Resupply Services	+	Video
Sep 29, 13	Falcon 9v1.1	VAFB LC4E	CASSIOPE	Polar	MDA Corp //	+	Video
					Propulsive return over water simulated test landing	-
Dec 3, 13	Falcon 9v1.1	CC LC40	SES - 8	GTO	SES	+	Video
Jan 6, 14	Falcon 9v1.1	CC LC40	Thaicom 6	GTO	Thaicom	+	Video
Apr 18, 14	Falcon 9v1.1	CC LC40	Space X CRS - 3	LEO	NASA Commercial Resupply Services //	+	Video
	First Dragon		First booster with extendable legs		CRS-3 First Stage Controlled descent test		Video
Jul 14, 14	Falcon 9v1.1	CC LC40	OG2 Mission 1 6 OG2 Sattelites	LEO	Orbcomm //	+	Video
					Falcon 9 First Stage Return ORBCOMM Mission		Video
Aug 5, 14	Falcon 9v1.1	CC LC40	Asia Sat 8	GTO	Asia Sat	+	Video
Aug 22, 14	Falcon 9v1.1				Falcon 9 Static Fire Test Falcon 9 First Stage Reentry Footage From Plane	+	. Video
Aug 22, 14	Falcon 9-R	McG T			F-9.1 Dev-1 Test	-	Video
Sep 7, 14	Falcon 9v1.1	CC LC40	Asia Sat 6	GTO	Asia Sat	+	Video
Sep 21, 14	Falcon 9v1.1	CC LC40	Space X CRS - 4	LEO	NASA Commercial Resupply Services //	+	Video
					Controlled descent test		Video
Jan 10, 15	Falcon 9v1.1	CC LC40	Space X CRS - 5	LEO	NASA Commercial Resupply Services //	+	Video
			Run out of hydraulic fluid		CRS-5 First Stage Landing	-	Video
Feb 11, 15	Falcon 9v1.1	CC LC40	DSCOVR	L1	US Air Force / NASA / NOAA //	+	Video
			Landed within 10m of target		Test flight descent	-
Mar 2, 15	Falcon 9v1.1	CC LC40	ABS - 3A Eutelsat 115 West B	GTO	Asia Broadcast Sattelite, Eutelsat (Satmex)	+	Video
Apr 14, 15	Falcon 9v1.1	CC LC40	Space X CRS - 6	LEO	NASA Commercial Resupply Services //	+	Video
			Excess lateral velocity		CRS-6 First Stage Landing Falcon landing vidme	-	Video
Apr 27, 15	Falcon 9v1.1	CC LC40	TurkmenAlem52E/MonacoSat	GTO	Thales Alenia Space	+	Video
Jun 28, 15	Falcon 9v1.1	CC LC40	Space X CRS - 7	LEO	NASA Commercial Resupply Services //	-	Video
Space	X	2015	Launch Schedule
Jul 15, 15	Falcon 9v1.1	CC LC40	SES 9	GTO	SES
Jul 22, 15	Falcon 9v1.1	VAFB SLC-4E	Jason 3	SSO	NASA / NOAA EUMETSAT CNES
Mid 2015	Falcon 9v1.1	CC LC40	Orbcomm-OG2 11 OG2 Sattelites	GTO	Orbcomm
3rd Quarter	Falcon Heavy	KSC LC39A	Demo Flight	TBD	Space X
Sep 2, 15	Falcon 9v1.1	CC LC40	Space X CRS - 8	LEO	NASA Commercial Resupply Services //
					CRS-8 First Stage Landing
3rd Quarter	Falcon 9v1.1	CC LC40	JCSAT 14 Communications Sattelite	GTO	Sky Perfect JSAT Corp
4th Quarter	Falcon 9v1.1	CC LC40	ABS - 3A Eutelsat 115 West B	GTO	Asia Broadcast Sattelite, Eutelsat (Satmex)
Dec 9, 15	Falcon 9v1.1	CC LC40	Space X CRS - 9		NASA Commercial Resupply Services //
					CRS-9 First Stage Landing
Q 1, 16	Falcon 9v1.1	CC LC40	Amos 6	GTO	Spacecom
Feb 13, 16	Falcon 9v1.1	CC LC40	Space X CRS - 10		NASA Commercial Resupply Services //
					CRS-10 First Stage Landing

Space X	Videos
Jun 5, 2015	Falling Back to Earth
May 6, 2015	Pad Abort Test, view from outside; Pad Abort Test, view from inside
Apr 14, 2015	CRS - 6 First Stage Landing
Apr 14, 2015	CRS - 6 Launch
Apr 13, 2015	CRS - 6 Launch Scrub
Apr 9, 2015	4K Footage / Space X Launches
Mar 1, 2015	Space X ABS / Eutelsat 1 Mission
Jan 27, 2015	Falcon Heavy / Flight Animation
Jan 10, 2015	CRS - 5 Launch
Jan 6, 2015	CRS - 5 Launch Scrub
Jan 1, 2015	Space X Year In Review
Dec 22, 2014	Earth Timelapses, ESA, Alexander Gerst
Nov 20, 2014	Space X Rocket Tank Production /Timelapse
Sep 20, 2014	CRS - 4 Launch
Sep 6, 2014	AsiaSat 6 / Falcon 9 Launch
Aug 14, 2014	Falcon 9 First Stage Reentry Footage From Plane
Aug 5, 2014	AsiaSat 8 /Falcon 9 Sattelite Launch Webcast
Jul 14, 2014	Falcon 9 First Stage Return / ORBCOM Mission
Jul 14, 2014	Orbcomm OG2 / Falcon 9 Launch
Jun 19, 2014	F9R 1000m Fin Flight / Onboard Cam and Wide Shot
May 27, 2014	Space X SuperDraco Thruster Firing
May 2, 2014	F9R Fin Flight Test / 1000m
Apr 18, 2014	F9R Fin Flight Test / 250m
Jan 6, 2014	Mission Overview / THAICOM 6 Launch

 

[Dutchie]

Tweet

Testing operation of hypersonic grid fins (x-wing config) going on next flight pic.twitter.com/O1tMSIXxsT

landing ship

Autonomous spaceport drone ship. Thrusters repurposed from deep sea oil rigs hold position within 3m even in a storm. pic.twitter.com/wJFOnGdt9w

 

[RubberToe]

I sure hope they show live video from the stage coming down, or at least from a camera on the platform. Buck Rogers would be proud.

RT

 

[Cosmacelf]

Oh wow, that floating platform makes it look all the more real. Can't wait for video of the event...

 

[Grendal]

Here's a nice article summing up the details we know. In the comments of the article, a poster put a link to the details of the oil rig thrusters.

SpaceX Is Testing Autonomous Space Rocket Landing Ships

 

[aronth5]

"SpaceX’s Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship ready for action"

Nice article with some very good links.

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/11/spacex-autonomous-spaceport-drone-ship/

 

[hockeythug]

When all of this finally comes togehter it will be amazing to witness.

 

[rsquared99]

Refuel on the landing platform and then fly back for a base landing. That is the answer to a question that had been bugging me. I hadn't considered that solution, so I'm obviously not thinking far enough out of the box. The adventure continues.

 

[TEG]

I gather that the value of recapturing a used stage is worth all the extra fuel to land it as well as all the extra fuel of moving / positioning the landing platform, all the transport of staff to landing platform, etc? The fuel used to be able to reuse the booster starts to add up. It will probably take a lot of reused boosters to justify the cost of the landing platform too.

Do the economics all add up? I suppose there is PR value is saying you reuse and recycle plus the geek wow factor even if the costs are high.

 

[JRod0802]

I remember at one point Elon saying that the cost of fuel to fully fuel a rocket is about $200,000 (although certainly they wouldn't need to fully fuel it to hop the first stage back to land). The cost of a new first stage, though, I'm going to guess is ~$30,000,000. Even if it costs them $300,000 to get the stage back, and $200,000 to refurbish it, that's still much better than spending $30,000,000 to build a new one.

Of course the largest hit they take isn't in logistics, but in the fact that they'll only be able to launch about 60% the mass to LEO than they were previously able to launch due to the weight of the re-usability stuff (like leaving extra fuel in the tank, and putting legs on the rocket).

 

[Cosmacelf]

Umm why only 60%? I would have thought it would be much higher. It doesn't need much power to land.

 

[JRod0802]

I'm trying to remember my numbers here, but I think Elon said that only 4% or so of the mass at launch ends up in orbit. And that adding reusability brings that down to somewhere between 2% and 2.5% So that means they'd only be able to launch somewhere between 50% and 62.5% of what they were previously able to launch. (I guessed 60%).

But this was from an interview from a while ago, and those numbers are quite rounded, and Elon seemed to not be quite sure of the final values since they hadn't done much actual testing at the time.

Does anyone have any numbers on this that are more up-to-date?

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I remember at one point Elon saying that the cost of fuel to fully fuel a rocket is about $200,000 (although certainly they wouldn't need to fully fuel it to hop the first stage back to land). The cost of a new first stage, though, I'm going to guess is ~$30,000,000. Even if it costs them $300,000 to get the stage back, and $200,000 to refurbish it, that's still much better than spending $30,000,000 to build a new one.

Of course the largest hit they take isn't in logistics, but in the fact that they'll only be able to launch about 60% the mass to LEO that they were previously able to launch due to the weight of the re-usability stuff (like leaving extra fuel in the tank, and putting legs on the rocket).

Also should be factored is in that with reusability you can do more flights, because you significantly multiply your manufacturing-trips per year.

But, for now, stage one (ho ho) is just to land the thing and see what happens.

Here's another reusability thought. Imagine SpaceX has full reusability. 3 F9 engines fail in flight, so they can't get the cargo to orbit. SpaceX aborts the missions, lands the 3 pieces, checks them out, repairs, and then sends them up again. Not only could the kaboom cost be cut dramatically by re-use, but the ability to recover would cut the risk of cargo loss.

 

[Grendal]

Here's another reusability thought. Imagine SpaceX has full reusability. 3 F9 engines fail in flight, so they can't get the cargo to orbit. SpaceX aborts the missions, lands the 3 pieces, checks them out, repairs, and then sends them up again. Not only could the kaboom cost be cut dramatically by re-use, but the ability to recover would cut the risk of cargo loss.

There seemed to be a decent amount of damage in the one engine failure. I would bet there would need to be a lot of repair needed if three engines failed. It would probably still be less than the price of building a new rocket from scratch.

On that thought, I wonder how much of the rocket cost is the engines compared to the rocket body? How much is the cost of one Merlin engine? $1 million each?

 

[HVM]

I'm trying to remember my numbers here, but I think Elon said that only 4% or so of the mass at launch ends up in orbit. And that adding reusability brings that down to somewhere between 2% and 2.5% So that means they'd only be able to launch somewhere between 50% and 62.5% of what they were previously able to launch. (I guessed 60%).

But this was from an interview from a while ago, and those numbers are quite rounded, and Elon seemed to not be quite sure of the final values since they hadn't done much actual testing at the time.



Does anyone have any numbers on this that are more up-to-date?

Musk also addressed the performance hit that results from reserving propellant for landing the first stage.
“If we do an ocean landing (for testing purposes), the performance hit is actually quite small, maybe in the order of 15 percent. If we do a return to launch site landing, it’s probably double that, it’s more like a 30 percent hit (i.e., 30 percent of payload lost).”

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/10/musk-plans-reusability-falcon-9-rocket/

Also remember Aerobraking...

 

[anticitizen13.7]

I sure hope they show live video from the stage coming down, or at least from a camera on the platform. Buck Rogers would be proud.

RT

LOL, this is going to be great for Doctor Who fans too. The Judoon (Rhinoceros-like alien space police) use ships that land like SpaceX rockets will land.

 

[aronth5]

I gather that the value of recapturing a used stage is worth all the extra fuel to land it as well as all the extra fuel of moving / positioning the landing platform, all the transport of staff to landing platform, etc? The fuel used to be able to reuse the booster starts to add up. It will probably take a lot of reused boosters to justify the cost of the landing platform too.

Do the economics all add up? I suppose there is PR value is saying you reuse and recycle plus the geek wow factor even if the costs are high.

I expect once they are successful and prove landing is safe they won't have to land on a barge with the added complexity that it brings. A temporary solution since it adds unnecessary cost, time and requires more people.

 

[Cosmacelf]

I expect once they are successful and prove landing is safe they won't have to land on a barge with the added complexity that it brings. A temporary solution since it adds unnecessary cost, time and requires more people.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. It isn't obvious that the powers that be will allow rocket tail landings anywhere near human habitation. Maybe SpaceX will be allowed to create a new spaceport in the middle of nowhere requiring the building of many miles of road.

 

[sandpiper]

I wouldn't be so sure of that. It isn't obvious that the powers that be will allow rocket tail landings anywhere near human habitation. Maybe SpaceX will be allowed to create a new spaceport in the middle of nowhere requiring the building of many miles of road.

The bigger problem is that by the time that the first stage expires it's a long ways downrange. For a Florida launch, it would be a major bit of fuel consumption for the stage to turn around and return to the continental US. Something may be possible if they launch from Texas. Unless there is some mid-atlantic island that is in an opportune location?