SpaceX vs. Everyone - ULA, NG, Boeing, Lockheed, etc.

[scaesare]

Interesting they refer to it as a "liquified natural gas" engine, rather than "methane", which I would expect in rocketry, as it's the more scientifically descriptive term. Same on their website BE-4 pages. I wonder if they are avoiding "methane" or "methalox" as people associate LNG with "clean burning" gas (they used that phrase in the video).... or so as to slightly differentiate themselves from Raptor.

 

[mongo]

Interesting they refer to it as a "liquified natural gas" engine, rather than "methane", which I would expect in rocketry, as it's the more scientifically descriptive term. Same on their website BE-4 pages. I wonder if they are avoiding "methane" or "methalox" as people associate LNG with "clean burning" gas (they used that phrase in the video).... or so as to slightly differentiate themselves from Raptor.

It's methane
I advocate for calling liquefied methane LANE. 'ane' being the base structure and it only having one.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1277985275650727936

 

[scaesare]

It's methane
I advocate for calling liquefied methane LANE. 'ane' being the base structure and it only having one.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1277985275650727936

I agree it's methane. I wonder why they use LNG instead... you know it being rocket science and all...

 

[ecarfan]

Interesting they refer to it as a "liquified natural gas" engine, rather than "methane", which I would expect in rocketry, as it's the more scientifically descriptive term.

I think that it’s for marketing purposes and to appeal more to the general public. I would guess that the majority of Americans do not know that “methane” is the same as “natural gas”, and the latter sounds environmentally friendly.

I suspect that most Americans have never taken a course in basic chemistry.

 

[mongo]

I agree it's methane. I wonder why they use LNG instead... you know it being rocket science and all...

Less syllables, plus that's easier when dealing with hardware suppliers.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I think that it’s for marketing purposes and to appeal more to the general public. I would guess that the majority of Americans do not know that “methane” is the same as “natural gas”, and the latter sounds environmentally friendly.

I suspect that most Americans have never taken a course in basic chemistry.

Well, you can't call it methane, because it's not just methane. And the naming is a happy accident as it was by comparison with coal gas, which was used before the first natural gas wells were dug.

 

[ecarfan]

Given that LNG is typically 85-90% methane I’m okay with Tory calling it “methane” in a tweet.

 

[mongo]

Given that LNG is typically 85-90% methane I’m okay with Tory calling it “methane” in a tweet.

That's backwards. ULA uses methane and called it "LNG".

 

[ecarfan]

Okay, sorry for my confusion. I saw the Tory tweet you showed in your post #822 above and read “methane” and thought that was what was being discussed based on the post by @scaesare just below yours.

 

[ecarfan]

Eric Berger: So long, Richard Shelby, and thanks for all the pork

Hilarious headline! Yesterday was Shelby’s last day as a Senator and the head of the Appropriations Committee. Finally.

For the last decade, Shelby was arguably the most influential US government official when it came to space policy, dictating NASA's continued development of the Space Launch System and focusing on an Apollo-like plan to return to the Moon. He did so over the last decade by lavishing more funding on the SLS rocket program, which was based at Marshall, than NASA asked for every year. He also held the line in 2019 when NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine suggested that due to delays with the rocket's development, it might be better to launch the Orion spacecraft on SpaceX's Falcon Heavy rocket.

Elon didn’t mince words:

Musk offered this blunt assessment of the Alabama senator and SpaceX on Tuesday: "Shelby did his best to hold back SpaceX."

Shelby is being replaced by Katie Britt in the Senate, his former chief of staff. She has hired key staffers from Shelby's team, including Clay Armentrout, who did a lot of work on space policy. Nevertheless, while Britt's approach to space policy is unlikely to change, she will lack the clout and perch on the Appropriations Committee that Shelby used to great effect.

The new chair of the Senate Appropriations Committee will be Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash).

Uh oh. Will she direct tax dollars to Boeing and Blue Origin? Both are based in Washington. Berger’s conclusion is that even if she wants to, it may be too late to stop NASA’s transition to fixed price contracts.

 

[Grendal]

Uh oh. Will she direct tax dollars to Boeing and Blue Origin? Both are based in Washington. Berger’s conclusion is that even if she wants to, it may be too late to stop NASA’s transition to fixed price contracts.

One can only hope that the new system has taken root. It would be a significant day for taxpayers if fixed price contracts were used in many other government programs - namely military contracts. The blank check system of cost plus is so damaging and wasteful. Likely the worst effect is one that isn't even considered compared to wasted tax dollars: it's the subtle destruction of innovation.

 

[ecarfan]

Virgin Orbit, and Virgin Galactic, have been in a death spiral for a few years now. I don’t see how they can survive.

And the death spiral continues; yesterday’s Virgin Orbit launch attempt in the UK failed.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/01/even-before-mondays-launch-failure-virgin-orbits-finances-were-dismal/

Will Virgin Orbit shut down this year? Seems likely.

 

[Grendal]

Space Force weighing new approach for selecting national security launch providers - SpaceNews

An option under consideration for NSSL Phase 3 is to create “on ramps” to allow emerging launch providers to compete

spacenews.com

 

[ecarfan]

Virgin Orbit: Dislodged fuel filter blamed for rocket failure

The data is indicating that, from the beginning of the second stage first burn, a fuel filter within the fuel feedline had been dislodged from its normal position," Virgin Orbit tweeted.
"Additional data shows that the fuel pump that is downstream of the filter operated at a degraded efficiency level, resulting in the Newton 4 engine being starved for fuel.

It doesn’t take much to derail a rocket.

 

[Grendal]

Space Force to change how it buys national security launches

Space Force to change how it buys national security launches

spacenews.com

 

[Grendal]

A follow up to the previous post.

Military to tap commercial industry for ‘space mobility’ services

The U.S. Space Force is looking for ways it could support future military operations with nontraditional space transportation systems and on-orbit logistics support, Maj. Gen. Stephen Purdy said Feb. 21.

spacenews.com

SpaceX has said it plans to launch 200 to 300 times a year in the future, a number that got Purdy’s attention. “If they’re going to do that, the cost of launch is getting pretty negligible at that point, and that’s really intriguing,” he said. “From a rocket cargo perspective, the cost could end up being lower than delivering cargo on a military C-17 aircraft.”

 

[Grendal]

Congrats to ULA. That said, what's the chance that Starship will reach orbit before Vulcan? TBH I'm sure neither company really cares other than basic competitiveness.

ULA announces May launch of first Vulcan

The first launch of United Launch Alliance’s Vulcan Centaur rocket is now scheduled for no earlier than May 4, the company announced Feb. 23.

spacenews.com

 

[ecarfan]

By the time ULA is flying Vulcan regularly and is able to reliably recover and reuse the booster engines and thrust structure (years from now) the vehicle will be obsolete and not cost competitive with Starship.

 

[bxr140]

Congrats to ULA. That said, what's the chance that Starship will reach orbit before Vulcan? TBH I'm sure neither company really cares other than basic competitiveness.

They don't. It's manufactured by the SX fanbase.

Funny thing is that for the foreseeable future--at least many years to come--Vulcan is likely to have a higher launch cadence than non-internal Starships.

 

[mongo]

They don't. It's manufactured by the SX fanbase.

Funny thing is that for the foreseeable future--at least many years to come--Vulcan is likely to have a higher launch cadence than non-internal Starships.

What's funny?

Isn't using Bezos engines to launch Bezos satellites because the Bezos rocket isn't ready akin to internal use?
Regardless, SpaceX has 30 non-exclusive Starlink launches scheduled in 2023. 27 flights excluding transporter which could carry Starlink. Plus 5 non-Starlink flights already this year or 30+ non internal for the year.
SpaceX had 25 non-Starlink launches in 2022.

The ULA target is 24-26 per year by the end of 2025.
SpaceX Launch Schedule - RocketLaunch.Live
After Vulcan comes online, ULA plans to dramatically increase launch cadence

Between its commitment to fly 60 percent of the Space Force's missions in the next few years, and dozens of launches for Amazon's Project Kuiper megaconstellation, Vulcan has a lengthy manifest through the mid-2020s. Bruno said that, in addition to flying out its remaining Atlas V rockets, ULA plans to meet that demand.

That’s a lot of Vulcans​

"We have to ramp up," Bruno said. "Before the end of 2025 we expect to be really at a tempo, which is flying a couple of times a month, every two weeks."