SpaceX webcast diversity

[scaesare]

It isn't just one segment of the population. Some are more open about their outward biases and outright racism (emboldened in recent times). However, everyone has biases. Hence the implicit part. Saying you don't is denying the issue and a part of yourself.

Everyone has bias, agreed. I disagree that everyone uses them to inappropriately discriminate.

Secondly, a goal to eliminate bias must include programs to force disparate groups to interact.

What you state as an assertion of fact appears to be your opinion.

What's more, programs such as "equal" opportunity, are often aren't. Admission quotas, the "Rooney Rule", etc.. all have significant problems associated with them, not the least of which being they haven't solved the issue, but in some cases amplified it.

Your statements all assume bias doesn't exist or that it can be ignored but that isn't the case. The facts are that humans are biased regardless of whether they understand they are. Your idealistic statements won't become a reality just by stating a goal to eliminate bias and declaring your lack of bias. Rather its the opposite. But we can just ignore the facts and the plethora of peer reviewed research and go with "our gut" since that's what is in vogue nowadays.

Your assumptions about my statements are incorrect. Simply because my views on what the goal(s) should be don't incorporate your ideology, please do not attempt to reinterpret my statements.

 

[scaesare]

A trope used by conservatives to bludgeon minorities for a long time. Please state any examples of racial quotas in the past 40 years. There are none but it is a racist bogeyman trope repeated ad infinitum. Congratulations for continuing an embarrassing argument into the 21st Century.

Admission quotas

 

[croman]

Admission quotas

LOL. Here's a fact: the only racial quotas allowed are the racist US immigration laws that work to preserve the diminishing white majority in the US. Whatever that lame google search turns up, racial quotas have been banned in workplaces and educational institutions since 1978 (yes, 39 years ago!) Regents of the University of California v. Bakke - Wikipedia

So, in short, you and anyone else that tries to perpetrate a white man myth that racial quotas are the reason why minorities are successful (and white people aren't), just understand its a lie. Also, understand that the affirmative action programs that are at work often diminish the prospects of more qualified ultra minorities like Asians rather than suppress white participation (where legacy programs act as a bulwark against actual social integration and allow relatively unqualified mostly white male applicants). A similar effects occurs in work places where mostly white men are in charge of hiring and hire those that most relate to them (other white men).

I realize its almost pointless to bring these points up because there is a willful ignorance at work here but I'd rather speak up than let clearly incorrect statements go unchallenged. Diversity is a strength of the US but the US has a terrible legacy of entrenched groups. Women only got the right to vote less than 100 years ago. People of color still do not have the same freedoms. To hear such talk about quotas and basing hiring only on qualifications is to throw this country back 50 years. By the looks of things, a new Jim Crow is upon us.

 

[scaesare]

LOL. Here's a fact: the only racial quotas allowed are the racist US immigration laws that work to preserve the diminishing white majority in the US. Whatever that lame google search turns up, racial quotas have been banned in workplaces and educational institutions since 1978 (yes, 39 years ago!) Regents of the University of California v. Bakke - Wikipedia

Discrimination is illegal, yet you advocate forced programs to combat it, therefore supporting the notion that, despite it's illegality, it does exist. Yet you cite the illegality of quotas as evidence it doesn't exist, despite a number of evidences to the contrary.

An odd dichotomy in your logic.

So, in short, you and anyone else that tries to perpetrate a white man myth that racial quotas are the reason why minorities are successful (and white people aren't), just understand its a lie.

Until which point you can supply me with a quote where I said any such thing, this assertion shall be considered libelous.

...but I'd rather speak up than let clearly incorrect statements go unchallenged.

You may start by being correct about the statements you are challenging.

 

[croman]

I never advocated for forced programs to combat bias. I just stated the only way to overcome bias to have diverse groups that interact and break down barriers and bias. I think you fail to address the fact the quotas that you pushed are illegal and don't exist but still, 40 years later, people mention it and then conveniently fall back on other tired arguments when faced with facts.

Also your allegations of libel are misplaced. You responded to my post with a google link about racial quotas. Your refutation is a statement. If it wasn't, what is it? Also, even if you never said what I believe you did, my statement is not libelous and I stand by it. You clearly can disagree. If I've misinterpreted your "google" link's message, it was merely because it was a lazy refutation post to a far more concise statement of mine and your ambiguity leaves much to be interpreted.

I also find it quite amusing that you've failed to acknowledge that you were pushing racist tropes about quotas and instead cite to an NFL rule that is as lame as it sounds and lacks enough teeth to actually give very qualified African-American coaches a chance at advancement in an entrenched system where they are viewed as brawn and not brains (much the same is happening to black quarterbacks).

Nonetheless, while I believe we have significant disagreements on the how and why, at least we share the same goal of a meritocracy. The question is how to best achieve a meritocracy in a very unequal system. I believe in an analogy. I believe life is a marathon. Minorities are just held back from the starting line for 10 minutes, poor people (regardless of race) are held for 5 minutes, and the privileged few (regardless of race) are given a 5 minute head start. Regardless of how good of a runner you are, it is unfair from the get go but some might overcome those issues and hurdle ahead. That does not mean the race was fair.

 

[scaesare]

I never advocated for forced programs to combat bias.

Um....

Secondly, a goal to eliminate bias must include programs to force disparate groups to interact

As long as you are going to misrepresent both your own statements as well as mine, I'll refrain from attempting further discussion.

 

[Uncle Paul]

For Tesla to determine their presenters by race, creed or sexual aspects would be not only a insult to Tesla, but also to those chosen to present.
Backwards thinking.
A person should be selected due to his individual qualities...nothing else.
No discrimination either way.

 

[FlatSix911]

I was really getting keyed up watching the count and then at T-13 hearing "Hold Hold Hold" was jarring. But that's life in the rocket business. I was impressed with the pre-launch presentation and how SpaceX is making an effort to educate and excite people about what it is doing. (I put some serious thought into how to phrase the following comment) In my opinion, the company should use a more diverse group of launch day video presenters so that people who don't look like the presenters (so far all Caucasians except for one African-American we've seen in past launches) can see someone who looks more like them and get inspired and excited about the SpaceX mission. In a perfect world what you look like wouldn't matter, but in the real world unfortunately it does. Surely SpaceX has some employees of East Asian or South Asian descent (for example) they could use as presenters? I am confident that SpaceX is not deliberately choosing young attractive white people to be launch day presenters and excluding people who don't look like that. But I think SpaceX needs to put more thought into this issue.

This is complete PC nonsense ... stop and think about hiring the best people based on their talent.
I live and work in Silicon Valley, one of the most interesting and diverse places on the planet...

 

[ecarfan]

I find it interesting that my suggestion that SpaceX consider how their choice of presenters can effect those they hope to inspire and excite about humanity's future in space rapidly became an argument about "political correctness" (a useless and polarizing phrase that is often used as a smokescreen to obscure one's root biases) and hiring/admission quotas.

 

[hockeythug]

You should just say you think the company is racist. That's what you are saying.

 

[Whistle2Whine]

I know many of us Tesla drivers are 'self made' and therefore, especially if not an ethnic minority or woman, might think anything other than a 'pure meritocracy' is being PC. Seriously guys, representation matters. It really does. In fact, one of the things I like about SpaceX is that they seem to have a more diverse, and younger workforce than do their competing space firms. As an African-American, in the tech industry, I'm actually heartened to have seen a number of black women presenting the webcasts. Why? Because representation matters. It's not even a matter of quotas or anything attacked as "PC", it's a matter of a company (quite thoughtfully, I'm sure) wanting to show their vision of what's possible for as many as possible, using their own talented workforce.

For a black or latino kid who may not have a lot of encouragement to pursue technology or science, seeing someone like them help lead the charge to space..you have no idea how big a deal that is. It expands their idea of what's possible for themselves in a way that usually isn't necessary for others.

For a young nerd in the 80s and 90s like me, certain black characters were just...THERE, doing cool things with technology. Of note, Lt. Uhura on Star Trek, Dr. Richard Daystrom from Star Trek, Lt. Commander LaForge from Star Trek TNG and Dr. Miles Dyson from 'Terminator'. It's a big deal because they were just THERE, doing normal cool things in venues that many minorities aren't really told are 'normal' for them. That, plus having parents who were technology-minded themselves (dad being a high level mechanic for an airline and mom working for Tandy Corporation) really, genuinely helped. I saw representation, I asked to participate in hobbies that would line up, and parents made moves to support.

Representation creates a snowball effect, which for me expanded my love for math, science, technology and business in ways that led to me being self-made and successful and able to have a Tesla and do other things.

Many of you talking about PC this and that and quotas probably also zero-in on crime, especially minority crime. You want to fix that? Great....then representation MATTERS. I want black and latino men out of the prison system probably more than you do. The key is preventing them from getting there, and that means getting them (and their disaffected white rust belt/Appalachian counterparts) ready, sooner for the 21st century economy. For blacks and latinos, I promise you that seeing more people like themselves who have risen up and done innovative things will help.

The movie 'Hidden Figures' is very relevant to this thread. But for me the part that hit me in the feels was when the leader of the 'Human Calculators' went in..and started teaching the women FORTRAN. Those women were only a bit older than my mom. Please try to think about things like that.

 

[totochi]

There were auditions for webcast presenters awhile back. Many people applied and there were multiple screen tests done. I assume that there was a set of objective criteria for choosing presenters.

 

[Pdub2015]

There were auditions for webcast presenters awhile back. Many people applied and there were multiple screen tests done. I assume that there was a set of objective criteria for choosing presenters.

You can also safely assume there were probably a set of subjective criteria at play, too, and that's fine. The company is within its rights to select the presenters as they see fit. I agree with the OP (even though I didn't see the most recent webcast) that it would be a "good look" if Space X were able to show it's inherent diversity through the selection of the presenters, as long as the presenters chosen all meet the criteria. I don't think the OP was suggesting that Space X employ unqualified presenters. I certainly don't think he was trying to make the claim that Space X is racist.

This discussion, however, unearthed some posters with sentiments that make me, an African American, slightly uncomfortable. I'm fully onboard with Whistle2Whine's post, but to see others dance around the old "diversity means hiring the unqualified" trope is a little unsettling, since I've come to expect mostly intelligent viewpoints here at TMC.

About 20 years ago or so, I wrote a letter to the publishers of one of the popular car magazines to inquire about the lack of African Americans on their writing staff and in their editorial photos. The response I received puzzled me: the writer claimed first that (paraphrasing) "It's not intentional, we just don't think about it (diversity)" and second, they were convinced that there were not enough qualified African American journalists, and the ones that would meet their qualifications would be too expensive to hire.

If one is not "thinking" about diversifying one's workforce, one is also probably not reviewing enough "other" candidates to have an opinion about their qualifications, right?

Sorry for the slight hijack, but to bring it all back: from what I've been hearing, Space X is practicing diversity and inclusion in it's hiring practices. It wouldn't hurt for that diversity to be reflected in its public face. If anyone believes it WOULD hurt, feel free to present your argument.

 

[Grendal]

Any excuse to do a repeat of this video:

All the people in that crowd cheering are SpaceX employees. Seemed to be a reasonable amount of diversity in the workforce if that crowd of employees is any example.

 

[hockeythug]

Two caucasians, one African American women.......That counts for two so it was even today.

 

[hockeythug]

I'm glad pioneers like SpaceX are too busy making history landing re-used rocket boosters to care about having a quota of minorities on the webcast.

 

[Grendal]

I have to say that I really like John Insprucker, the principle integration engineer that does some of the hosting activities. Maybe I'm just getting old that I appreciate that an older guy has a place among the younger crowd at SpaceX. I think he first gave the color commentary for a launch back in the early Falcon 1 days. I am always happy to see John.

 

[ICUDoc]

I'm getting old too, Gren, and I like John's "this is me, like it or lump it" engineer's approach, and I hope they keep him up front.
But the young blonde lady looks better and better all the time- are they grooming her up, or am I imagining it?