SPAN - Smart Electrical Panel

[gpez]

I was interested in SPAN until the Tesla SA sent me this note and had to hold off….

————
I would strongly suggest sticking to a square d, or an Eaton panel.

Often there can be power surges from a SPan panel that could affect the warranty of the Tesla system.

Just something to be mindful and do research on, back fed power surges from the Span Io if there is a power outage.

Smart panels have caused a few appliances to get circuit overload and render useless.

Please let me know if you plan to update the MPU so we can hold off on installation

————-

With just how poorly worded this note was alone would cause me to ignore it, let alone deeply question the SA's general ability to provide competent service...

What exactly does "back fed power surges from the Span IO if there is a power outage" mean? I did some research this morning and found nothing.

 

[YodaLearner]

I agree, but when Tesla say’s …it will impact powerwall warranty, installation delays and re writing the contract ..it’s hard to ignore.

 

[Vines]

I agree, but when Tesla say’s …it will impact powerwall warranty, installation delays and re writing the contract ..it’s hard to ignore.

Your warranty may be affected by many things, but I would also like to see some link that this was a problem. I have only heard the rumor from Tesla tech support.

 

[crackers8199]

i find it interesting that they ask you to do your own research, but then when you actually google such a thing looking for information there's nothing to be found...

 

[s0schen]

Your warranty may be affected by many things, but I would also like to see some link that this was a problem. I have only heard the rumor from Tesla tech support.

My Span panel is working very very well with my Tesla Powerwalls and some firmware updates have solved all the minor glitches I was experiencing. I use the Span app more frequently than Tesla since the Tesla app gets confused which car is my primary vehicle when swiping from the cars to the energy solutions. After the install the customer service has been excellent. Of course this may be because they don't have many customers yets...

That said install through 3rd parties was very painful. The panel is very tight with almost no room for Tesla to pass their wires through versus the vast empty space in a normal breaker box. They are still very much a startup company and relying on 3rd party installers is problematic since it is much more complicated to install than a normal main panel. They may not have any trained installers or willing 3rd party installers in your area.

 

[tchaimd]

Hi, all,

I have a 10 kW Sunpower solar system with two Powerwall 2 batteries, located in TX.

I just got the Span panel x 2 installed, and too early to draw conclusions, but there seems to be some issues that I have noticed, thus far. One such issue seems to be now that my Tesla app sometimes displays strange/incorrect info when checking the solar/battery status in real time.
Please see the below example, where the Tesla app shows 0kW power to the home, while showing Solar power to the grid. Compare that to what the Span app shows at the same time (photo2).
This real-time data from the Tesla app obviously makes no sense, at all. The Tesla app worked perfectly before the Span install, so I am trying to work with Support and the electrician contractor on the issue.

Also, you all are correct, Span uses 3rd party contractors for the install. Not sure how knowledgeable these contractors are with Span or how many installs they have done.

See photos below for example of faulty real-time data from the Tesla app vs Span app after Span install:

 

[tchaimd]

Meant to attach an additional image:

 

[brkaus]

Does Tesla Solar or Sunrun install SPAN along with solar? Optionally of course.

 

[crackers8199]

i really wish they would get the cost on these things down (not increase them as they recently did). $4500 is just insane, IMO.

 

[q2bruiser]

I have a Span as I needed to upgrade my panel anyway. Thought I might as well go for it. Only a month in, but it is nice. Very accurate numbers as compare to my grid and the Tesla app. Very convenient as I have needed to power off a couple of circuits and did it with the app. The backup management is great and can be changed on the fly.

All and all, a great upgrade. They have plenty of startup money so hopefully they are around for a long time.

 

[q2bruiser]

Hi, all,

I have a 10 kW Sunpower solar system with two Powerwall 2 batteries, located in TX.

I just got the Span panel x 2 installed, and too early to draw conclusions, but there seems to be some issues that I have noticed, thus far. One such issue seems to be now that my Tesla app sometimes displays strange/incorrect info when checking the solar/battery status in real time.
Please see the below example, where the Tesla app shows 0kW power to the home, while showing Solar power to the grid. Compare that to what the Span app shows at the same time (photo2).
This real-time data from the Tesla app obviously makes no sense, at all. The Tesla app worked perfectly before the Span install, so I am trying to work with Support and the electrician contractor on the issue.

Also, you all are correct, Span uses 3rd party contractors for the install. Not sure how knowledgeable these contractors are with Span or how many installs they have done.

See photos below for example of faulty real-time data from the Tesla app vs Span app after Span install:
View attachment 832022

View attachment 832023What I have found is either my Span over estimates battery percentage or the Tesla app underestimates battery percentage until the battery is around 90% ... then mine agree. The closer to 90%, the more they fall in line.

 

[jgleigh]

There is ~5% delta between what the Tesla app displays for Powerwalls and what the actual charge level is. You can see it if you dig into the API. I think they reserved it so they don't brick the batteries by running down to zero volts.

 

[growler23]

Thank you @betstarship and @woof for pointing me to this from the Investor roundtable. My partner and I are just about to close on a house that has an existing solar panel system (17 kW - holy cow!) and Powerwall 2. Digging in to the detailed wiring diagram, I can see that if I upgrade the ancient furnace to a heat pump, I would have to decide between:
1) Heat pump on the "critical panel" (battery backed up) : great, but will run the battery down super fast, or
2) Heat pump on the regular panel - which will not be supplied if the grid goes down, even if solar is available (per the current wiring).
This is quite frustrating given I might be freezing my a** off while literally surrounded by overabundant solar electricity and an electric heat pump, in the case of a multi day grid outage as infamously happened here in 2021.
This Span thing would let me do something intelligent in that case (run the heat pump only if battery > 50%). I will look into how pricey and available it would be here. Does that make sense?
Advice welcome.

 

[MX100DM3P2017]

Does Tesla Solar or Sunrun install SPAN along with solar? Optionally of course.

You should check directly with the local installation teams to see what is available. There was a press release several months ago from SPAN and Sunrun saying that the SPAN panel will be available through Sunrun but both websites contain no details. As a Sunrun customer for 9-years I find that their product announcements take years before they are available and then only for new customers. For my area, I am looking at upgrading my 9-year old solar array with new smart home panel, larger solar, battery backup, additional electrical load to support removing gas appliances, and new sub-meter EV charging support to be compatible with the new California PUC EV Charging sub-meter rules that were just announced. NRG Clean Power has been the only installer that offers all services I require, see Span Smart Panel Comprehensive Review - NRG Clean Power for further details.

 

[power.saver]

and new sub-meter EV charging support to be compatible with the new California PUC EV Charging sub-meter rules that were just announced

Do you have Net Metering? If so, the new rules on PEV sub-metering don't apply.

From Decision 22-08-024 August 4, 2022:

3.1.7. Net Energy Metering Customer Exclusion
...we do not extend the PEV Submetering Protocol to NEM customers at this time.

 

[MX100DM3P2017]

Do you have Net Metering? If so, the new rules on PEV sub-metering don't apply.

From Decision 22-08-024 August 4, 2022:

Yes, I know but for new customers on TOU or anyone making changes that are forced into TOU this is great news. I'm covered under NEM 1.0 so I'm doing well. However, 10-years ago I went to SCE to ask for a second meter for EV charging and was quoted $10K. That is why I installed solar 9-years ago. For new customers the new rules on PEV sub-metering is a major victory.

 

[BGbreeder]

Thank you @betstarship and @woof for pointing me to this from the Investor roundtable. My partner and I are just about to close on a house that has an existing solar panel system (17 kW - holy cow!) and Powerwall 2. Digging in to the detailed wiring diagram, I can see that if I upgrade the ancient furnace to a heat pump, I would have to decide between:
1) Heat pump on the "critical panel" (battery backed up) : great, but will run the battery down super fast, or
2) Heat pump on the regular panel - which will not be supplied if the grid goes down, even if solar is available (per the current wiring).
This is quite frustrating given I might be freezing my a** off while literally surrounded by overabundant solar electricity and an electric heat pump, in the case of a multi day grid outage as infamously happened here in 2021.
This Span thing would let me do something intelligent in that case (run the heat pump only if battery > 50%). I will look into how pricey and available it would be here. Does that make sense?
Advice welcome.

You can always change your thermostat, or flip a breaker. Otherwise, you have zero options in an outage. A thermostat, even a WiFi thermostat is less costly and easier to replace than a main panel.

 

[woof]

1) Heat pump on the "critical panel" (battery backed up) : great, but will run the battery down super fast,

Super fast? Unlikely. HP just maintaining temp in a well insulated house doesn't draw that much. You need enough power to get through the night, 'till those panels start producing again.

If you've not yet purchased that HP, and there is gas available, consider one that uses gas as backup heat source. Can switch to using gas for those few times when running on battery.

 

[growler23]

Super fast? Unlikely. HP just maintaining temp in a well insulated house doesn't draw that much. You need enough power to get through the night, 'till those panels start producing again.

If you've not yet purchased that HP, and there is gas available, consider one that uses gas as backup heat source. Can switch to using gas for those few times when running on battery.

Good points - I am not yet in the house to determine how well it holds up temp wise, although the previous owners (who bought the panels) also got excellent windows, so that will help.
I had trouble determining a power consumption rate for a heat pump after searching for specs online (found very few and very vague), but if another freeze + blackout happened, outside temps will be below freezing meaning the HP will be pulling extra juice per my understanding.
I had thought of the "dual fuel" heat pump (gas + electric). It is an option, seems like a roughly $1k cost, but I am conflicted on the wanting to fully eliminate natural gas front, and yet more complexity I may be adding to the system. But yes, having the gas option could save my butt as well in an emergency.
Appreciate the response.

 

[BGbreeder]

Good points - I am not yet in the house to determine how well it holds up temp wise, although the previous owners (who bought the panels) also got excellent windows, so that will help.
I had trouble determining a power consumption rate for a heat pump after searching for specs online (found very few and very vague), but if another freeze + blackout happened, outside temps will be below freezing meaning the HP will be pulling extra juice per my understanding.
I had thought of the "dual fuel" heat pump (gas + electric). It is an option, seems like a roughly $1k cost, but I am conflicted on the wanting to fully eliminate natural gas front, and yet more complexity I may be adding to the system. But yes, having the gas option could save my butt as well in an emergency.
Appreciate the response.

We are up a similar creek. Like you, I looked at eliminating fossil fuels, and I landed on the dual fuel version because a winter storm plus an electrical outages was going to mean a limited ability to recharge the Powerwalls, coupled with a real need for heat. If the pipes freeze, $1k is going to look cheap.

Just my $0.02...

Allthe best,

BG