Spare Mobile Connector a waste?

[S-2000 Roadster]

Question for both of you hackers: :wink:
Does the Tesla charge at any pilot setting you provide, or just the 12A/16A/24A/32A/40A/48A/60A/70A presets? Also, it seems like 72A should be a safe option for a 90A breaker, but maybe I'm missing something.

While I'm asking... either of you care to share schematics? I've been hanging out over at Dangerous Prototypes, where Open Hardware Design is very popular - and even profitable - so it seems worth asking.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

This is my homemade UMC solution.

very cool.... any possibility you'll release the design as open source? We wish to add 62196 ("Mennekes") sockets to the ZCW Charging Stations that we donate in the UK and don't want to reinvent the wheel :smile:

 

[scott451]

Question for both of you hackers: :wink:
Does the Tesla charge at any pilot setting you provide, or just the 12A/16A/24A/32A/40A/48A/60A/70A presets?

Yes. The VDS imposes the 8A steps. The Roadster PEM supports (and the tattler can set) any value between 12A and 70A in 1A steps.

Also, it seems like 72A should be a safe option for a 90A breaker, but maybe I'm missing something.

I believe that the 70A limit is caused by the radsok #4 connector in the Tesla connector.

While I'm asking... either of you care to share schematics? I've been hanging out over at Dangerous Prototypes, where Open Hardware Design is very popular - and even profitable - so it seems worth asking.

I'd be open to posting my design at Dangerous prototypes. I'm not clear on how it would be "profitable" to me (not that it's a requirement)

 

[vfx]

...cost was about $100..... My next project will be a homemade HPC but it will cost about 4x as much money...

A HPC for $400?
Amazing.

 

[S-2000 Roadster]

I'd be open to posting my design at Dangerous prototypes. I'm not clear on how it would be "profitable" to me (not that it's a requirement)

There is no monetary profit, but if you value educating people who are interested in electronics, then you can 'profit' from the knowledge that you've helped people. Visit the Dangerous Prototypes site and read about the history there. Ian has a goal to make one open hardware design per month. There is a community there of designers from all over the world: Asia, Europe, US, UK: who suggest ideas, discuss early designs, and then publish both circuits and firmware source. Many circuits are shared as Eagle files - since that software runs on both Mac and PC - but people have also submitted CAD files from other PCB design programs. Firmware is generally C source unless there is assembly needed for all or part of the control processor code.

I suppose that another potential 'profit' would be that someone might improve upon your design - either making it better or cheaper - and you would benefit from that along with everyone else. There are quite a few amateurs in the community, but there are also a few seasoned electrical engineers who have worked for decades on power circuits and other useful products.

If you're still interested after all of this, then I recommend joining the site there and starting a new topic in an appropriate forum. I bet people would be very interested in electric vehicle charging even if they don't have their own.

P.S. Seeed Studios makes it possible to manufacture your designs in low quantities without the usual costs of small scale production. They perhaps are not up to your standards, and you might not like their licensing model, but it's a consideration.

 

[hcsharp]

We should really start/move this to a new thread titled DIY charging solutions instead of continuing here...

Nice work!!!

I've be using 48A for about a year (16K miles) on my modified MC240 cable, without problems. The key issue is not only the breaker, but the connection to the NEMA 14-50 plug. It needs to be really low impedance or else heat will build up in the plug contacts. I crimped, soldered and clear shrink wraped #6 AWG lugs and then connected them to the NEMA 14-50 plug. This creates a very low impedance connection to the plug.

Good idea. And thanks for your other tips. I hadn't opened the plug yet to see how robust it is (or isn't). I also like your idea of connecting the control box with a little cable from the plug instead of what I did - spliced into the cable 10" from the plug and then applied layer upon layer of liquid electrical tape/goop in addition to heat shrink.

In martin's RFMC design, he put a 90C temp cutoff switch in the plug to protect it from bad (old RV) sockets.

That's always been in my plans but haven't done it yet. I was just going to use one of the remaining A/D inputs for this.

You might want to add 30A so if you use a J1772->NEMA 14-50 adapter on a blink/charge point charger, you can draw the full 30A.

I thought all the J1772 chargers went up to at least 32A (with 40A breakers). No? Also, for J1772 I was just planning to make a J1772 to Roadster connector without any interruption of the pilot so it would just charge at whatever the station will do. I'm crossing my fingers they will install 75A units at some point. Wasn't planning on ever using my DIY UMC for that.

You might want to consider using a RECON sealed 100-240V -> +5V converter as the main power supply. They are very small, cheap ($18) and if you seal the line-in connections, any water ingress will do minimal damage. An $8 +5V to +/-12 DC to DC converter provides the other voltages. (The tolerance on the regulator isn't that great, so you might want to convert to +/- 15V and then for another $1 linear regulate down to +/- 12V. Overall cost was $40 (add another $5 if you want the LEDs and a switch)

I used a recycled +-12v power supply, the smallest I could find but it's still too big. I hadn't thought of using a cheap and ubiquitous 5v switching PS and then using a DC to DC converter. It's hard to find small +- 12v dual supplies that are efficient with a small footprint. If anybody knows a good place to get one - pls let me know. This model is perfect: ETA-USA model OBS22WA-U but I can't find any suppliers who will sell it at a reasonable price. And it's not sealed.

Thanks for your input,
Henry

 

[hcsharp]

Question for both of you hackers: :wink:
Does the Tesla charge at any pilot setting you provide, or just the 12A/16A/24A/32A/40A/48A/60A/70A presets? Also, it seems like 72A should be a safe option for a 90A breaker, but maybe I'm missing something.

While I'm asking... either of you care to share schematics? I've been hanging out over at Dangerous Prototypes, where Open Hardware Design is very popular - and even profitable - so it seems worth asking.

Here's my initial schematic but keep in mind it's a work in progress and be forewarned that it has bugs and YOU WILL KILL YOURSELF if you do this yourself. Also I used a PIC 18F2221, not the unit in the schematic but it's virtually identical. Here's the Eagle sch file:
View attachment Pilot.zip

 

[hcsharp]

very cool.... any possibility you'll release the design as open source? We wish to add 62196 ("Mennekes") sockets to the ZCW Charging Stations that we donate in the UK and don't want to reinvent the wheel :smile:

Kevin you have the coolest last name of anybody on the forum:wink: except you don't need the 'e' at the end:biggrin:

I know nothing about Mennekes or European standards. The source is written in C for the free Boost C compiler which works most days. and I used an ICD2 programmer/debugger. I don't have time for using other sites like Dangerous prototypes or... whatever.

A few notes about the source: It is a work in progress. It has lots of bugs. I don't know where they are yet, but I'm sure you will find them as soon as you try to use it! I assume no liability whatsoever. In addition to finding the bugs, you will also surely kill yourself, or at least sustain permanent injuries. Now that you know that, if you still want to use it, here's the source:

View attachment TeslaUMC.zip

Good luck.

PS. If you're too busy to port this to your favorite compiler and do it yourself, I'd be happy to flash your chip or just make up the whole cable assembly for you for a price about 75% of what Tesla charges for their UMC and for that I would include the Roadster plug on the end. Let me know if you want any simple custom mods (like 30A in addition to 32 etc.). If too many people take me up on this offer I might have to say "no" to everybody because I don't want to do this for a living. Just trying to help my fellow Roadster owners...

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

Here's the Eagle sch file

fantastic, thank you... could I be terribly cheeky and ask you to post a pdf copy of the schematic?

 

[TEG]

Something else you might find interesting:
ELECTRIC VEHICLE SIMULATOR AND ANALYZER (EVSA) FOR ELECTRIC VEHICLE SUPPLY EQUIPMENT - Patent WO/2011/031801

 

[hcsharp]

fantastic, thank you... could I be terribly cheeky and ask you to post a pdf copy of the schematic?

View attachment Pilot07-11-11.pdf

Kevin what are the requirements for your Mennekes adapter that you're looking for? Maybe I could build one for you.

 

[smorgasbord]

I completed my first need to charge on the road trip last weekend. Turns out my destination did not provide reasonable access to a 220 outlet, so I ended up bringing the J1772 adapter for the road and the SMC for the destination, since it was lighter/smaller than the UMC. So, again, not a total waste, but not worth $600.

Since the destination was only about 15 miles from a public 70amp HPC, I actually took a little side trip the day before I left to get the SOC to a point where it would be full the next day via 110.

All in all, charging mid-trip is doable, but can be a drag.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

Kevin what are the requirements for your Mennekes adapter that you're looking for? Maybe I could build one for you.

Many thanks for the pdf and your kind offer...

Today ZCW donate a simple 'dumb' Charging Station that supports two 32A IEC 60309 "commando" sockets and one 13A BS 1363 "UK" socket for simultaneous charging of three vehicles. Here's a typical Hotel with the ZCW Charging Station in use;

charging TATA Cableo at the Arden Hotel, Birmingham

As we move forward we wish to 'upgrade' the ZCW Charging Stations to support the IEC 62196 Type 2 ("Mennekes") socket to support 32A charging. This will allow EV's with J1772 or 62196 sockets to charge using simple cables.

We need to keep the cost down so that we can continue to donate in large numbers (we intend to install 1000 sites in the UK in the next 12 months).

One possible way forward would be to take your design for the pilot generator and package it inside a DIN Rail enclosure for anyone wishing to build a J1772/Mennekes EVSE;

1-Module DIN Enclosures

I own a number of electronics/computer companies in the UK/US and would be happy to turn this into a product if thats of interest to you.... my preference would be to do this on a Not-For-Profit basis so that everyone could deploy low cost Charging Stations and mobile EVSE.... maybe an open source model would be appropriate... what are your thoughts?

 

[Eberhard]

I would like to modify the build-in-charger of the PEM by an vienna-based 3-phase charger (like BRUSA). Replacing the inlet-socked of the Roadster by Mennekes-Type 2. 44kW would be cool bit 22kW is fine too.
I would like to pay for it. up to € 5000. I know thats more then i have to pay for the power for the next 100.000km.
I still dreaming about, replace the Roadster drivetrain by the one of Model S. I hoped the did it for the final edition ($80.000 above the normal price is more then the price of a new Model S Signature Edition)

 

[hcsharp]

I would like to modify the build-in-charger of the PEM by an vienna-based 3-phase charger (like BRUSA). Replacing the inlet-socked of the Roadster by Mennekes-Type 2. 44kW would be cool bit 22kW is fine too.
I would like to pay for it. up to € 5000. I know thats more then i have to pay for the power for the next 100.000km.
...

There are aftermarket converters 3ph to single ph. Assuming you could find one small enough to fit in the Roadster you would still be limited by the capacity of the Roadster PEM which is well under 20kw continuous with 40kw burst.

 

[hcsharp]

Many thanks for the pdf and your kind offer...

Today ZCW donate a simple 'dumb' Charging Station that supports two 32A IEC 60309 "commando" sockets and one 13A BS 1363 "UK" socket for simultaneous charging of three vehicles. Here's a typical Hotel with the ZCW Charging Station in use;

charging TATA Cableo at the Arden Hotel, Birmingham

As we move forward we wish to 'upgrade' the ZCW Charging Stations to support the IEC 62196 Type 2 ("Mennekes") socket to support 32A charging. This will allow EV's with J1772 or 62196 sockets to charge using simple cables.

We need to keep the cost down so that we can continue to donate in large numbers (we intend to install 1000 sites in the UK in the next 12 months).

One possible way forward would be to take your design for the pilot generator and package it inside a DIN Rail enclosure for anyone wishing to build a J1772/Mennekes EVSE;

1-Module DIN Enclosures

I own a number of electronics/computer companies in the UK/US and would be happy to turn this into a product if thats of interest to you.... my preference would be to do this on a Not-For-Profit basis so that everyone could deploy low cost Charging Stations and mobile EVSE.... maybe an open source model would be appropriate... what are your thoughts?

Kevin, if you own a number of electronics/computer companies why don't you have one of them design and build one of these? I'd like to make a profit on this and I certainly can't compete with China on the simple adapters such as J1772 to Mennekes or M to J.

I can build a prototype of Mennekes-to-Roadster adapter but it would only use one phase of the supply. Both of those plugs/connectors are expensive to make in small quantities so I would guess about $700 for Mennekes-to-Roadster mobile adapter if I could sell a few.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

Kevin, if you own a number of electronics/computer companies why don't you have one of them design and build one of these?

I don't wish to reinvent the wheel and would like to support third party efforts if at all possible. I fully respect other peoples desire to make a profit but need to reconcile this with our ambition is to provide EV charging everywhere, at low cost, for all to use...

 

[Eberhard]

today i was in berlin. lots of typ-2 chargers there. finally i got a RFID from vattenfall with an contract on pay-per-use-only. the lady met me personally to give me the cards. it turned out the card were not activated. she went back to her office to fix that while i joint my conferene. 2h later she sent me an sms confirming that the card are active now. she came back and droped the cards at the desk. after my meeting, i picked up my cards and then i start charing my car with 16A with a free parking space on a prime location at the "kurfürstendamm" while having lunch. later i walked around checking the other charging spots there. i never had such service before. now i want my mennekes adapter to cut my charging time to half and for being more often in berlin. best thanks to vattenfall and their kind and helpful staff

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

I don't wish to reinvent the wheel and would like to support third party efforts if at all possible.

here's the EVSE hardware from the My Nissan Leaf project which I'm currently testing on J1772, Mennekes, and Tesla connectors...

 

[ggr]

I'm having a small problem with one particular 120-volt outlet at my workplace. I plug in the Spare Mobile Connector, and everything looks fine, but somewhere about an hour (more or less) into charging the ground fault interrupter built into the connector trips. The outlet itself doesn't seem to have a GFI, it's pretty old, so I assume it isn't the known problem of having bad interactions between the GFIs. I'm wondering if there is a problem using a cheapo two-prong adapter to pass the current through while leaving the ground prong unattached? (This is just a less permanent version of sawing off the ground prong...)

I did a quick search before posting this, but some results from that just confused me...