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Speculation (and wishful thinking): "Towing Package" includes additional battery

Discussion in 'Model X' started by LargeHamCollider, Jan 25, 2015.

  1. LargeHamCollider

    LargeHamCollider Battery cells != scalable

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    Model X should easily have the suspension and interior volume to stash away a separate 500lb battery, this will increase range by ~35% to make up for range lost when pulling a heavy trailer. Or just increase range 35% without a trailer, being a separate battery it won't be swappable, but will be supercharge-able.

    I see no reason why this couldn't be an option for 7k-ish... And really don't want to see such a reason either:tongue:
     
  2. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    No one has ever brought up the idea of an extra battery before. Not ever.

    :) (I'd go find the other threads, but it's late.)
     
  3. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    Current Model S 85kWh battery weighs in at 1,323lbs, adding a separate battery doesn't add proportionately to range. In addition to which you're now using energy to schlep the second 500lb battery around. Math finds the sweet spot and size vs weight trade-off has been covered many times.....if it was easy and sensible to add more kWh right now then Tesla would already be offering it.
     
  4. BerTX

    BerTX Member

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    I agree with what you are saying, but there are other factors in the equation other than performance, like the additional cost of the batteries and, currently, the availability of batteries. If Tesla can build 4 cars with the current range, or build a car with more range but only be able to build 3 of them due to a finite battery supply, they will build the 4 with adequate range.

    The diminishing returns on additional batteries due to weight is important for city driving, where the weight has to be frequently accelerated. In highway driving, not so much. A larger battery as an option for those who do more highway driving is valid.

    Perhaps, rather than the battery swap stations that change out the entire battery, it would be nice to have the small permanent battery for city driving, then pull into a battery station for an additional battery to increase range for highway use.
     
  5. LargeHamCollider

    LargeHamCollider Battery cells != scalable

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    Yes extra batteries have been discussed ad nauseum, I did do a forum search and didn't see anything on an extra battery as part of a tow package though.

    I suspect that the 1323lb figure is now out of date, I'd guess it's closer to 1200lb now but I can't back this up. 500lb equates to 30-35KWh.

    Extra mass increases rolling resistance in linear fashion, 500lb would only reduce range by ~4% at highway speeds, more in the city. The other factor is the increased energy required to accelerate, a (almost) non issue on the highway and partly compensated for by stronger regen in the city. The X will have suspension that can support more weight, there is no reason why Tesla couldn't do this... But several reasons why they wouldn't.

    In any case, I admit this is largely wishful thinking and hope it's an option.
     
  6. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    The batteries didn't get lighter and you can't equate weight with kWh.
     
  7. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    What am I missing? Why does making it part of a towing package (vs. a standalone option) change the discussion?
     
  8. scottf200

    scottf200 Active Member

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    I think they mean to keep the range similar even if you are towing something.

    250 miles Model X 85[D]
    250 miles Model X 100[D] while towing "something"
     
  9. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    But "something" isn't a static value. A small lightweight trailer, low to the ground, will have substantially less impact on range than say a horse trailer. I don't know how Tesla could state range while towing, since the aerodynamics and weight of the item being towed would need to be known.
     
  10. bxr140

    bxr140 Member

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    Wait...the towing package is going to include a skateboard trailer?

    :tongue:
     
  11. scottf200

    scottf200 Active Member

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    Of course. But you seemed confused on why it was related to the towing package. If you tow anything it will take more energy to overcome the areo and trailer tire friction (unless it is a hover trailer). :)
     
  12. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    I think I was clear that I was confused over why a conversation about the battery range would be different if it were part of a towing package versus a standalone option. I was replying to a post that said that though there were other conversations, it was not when it was part of a towing package. And whether Tesla offers an extra battery as part of a package or not still seems immaterial to the discussion about the viability of doing so.

    My exact words were:
    It would be a stretch to believe I was confused regarding the impact of towing upon a battery.
     
  13. wycolo

    wycolo Active Member

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    I've towed 1100+ (325 lb trailer plus load) from VT border into WY on the SuperCharger Route. If the load had been a 400 volt battery unit with an MS plug, socket and BMS then I would have been a happy camper indeed. I still would have charged the car battery to the same 90%+ at every SpC, and then spent some additional time maintaining the trailer pack. The joy would be to have all those extra KWHs to allow side trips and better dealing with headwinds.
    --
     
  14. scottf200

    scottf200 Active Member

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    Quite simply it seemed obvious why a larger/extra battery would make more sense when towing is involved vs just for longer range (the often reason) but yet you asked "What am I missing?". Perhaps you (were being rhetorical) or (just wanted to "berate" someone or just wanted to joust as you now are).
     
  15. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    No, actually, I was only wondering why it was different when discussed as part of a package. That was what I was wondering what I was missing. No hidden meaning in my words, just asking a simple question that seems to have had all sorts of hidden meanings attached to it.

    Moving on.
     
  16. Herbys

    Herbys Member

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    An additional thought

    One additional thought: when towing, cars tend to become rear-heavy since for most loads (e.g. boats, trailers) have a center of gravity that's ahead of their axle. So putting the extra tow battery in the frunk would help offset that. If Tesla offered a battery pack that occupied the Model X's taller frunk (which should be able to host a 500 pound battery pack in its nearly 7 Cu ft or so) they could include a small "crane" to load it and unload it to make it easily removable (which could include its own charger).
    I don't know if I would buy it as I don't tow often, but it certainly sounds like a reasonable solution to the problem of significantly shortened range while towing.
     
  17. Kevin Harney

    Kevin Harney Active Member

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    Scott,

    You obviously have not been here very long. I am going to take up for Bonnie here even though I know that she does not need me to. Bonnie is an amazing moderator and has never berated anyone to my knowledge. She was simply trying to gain more information - probably with the intent of merging this thread with other similar ones - and was probably trying to ascertain WHY this should be a separate thread. I am sure she was just trying to give you the benefit of the doubt actually. After you have been around here a while you will learn that Bonnie is a valuable asset to the entire site here and only has the best interest in mind (at least publically LOL :rolleyes:)
     
  18. nleggatt

    nleggatt Member

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    I've been thinking about the two package thingy, anyone think they will. Red to have a charge port on the front of the x if this is the case.

    Other ways do I have to un hitch my boat everytime I want to sc ??
     
  19. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    Chargeport at the front wouldn't help much with a trailer of any sort. Majority of supercharger spots are reverse-in but even the newer pull-in ones have no room for a trailer/boat without blocking the roadway.

    BTW Tesla, reversing camera needs to have good sight of the trailer hitch pls.
     
  20. scottf200

    scottf200 Active Member

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    I think you have a valid point. Based on your "Join Date" and "Posts", I think I should give your point some very considerate contemplation. Thanks for taking the time to response. Seriously.
     

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