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*Speculation* - M3 Supercharging speed will greatly increase with V3 Superchargers

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by vwtodd, Aug 9, 2017.

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  1. vwtodd

    vwtodd Member

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    One of the topics of "disappointment" (not me) on these forums is the "slow" rate of supercharging for M3. It's no secret that v3 Superchargers will be substantially more powerful than the present. It does not seem feasible that Tesla would engineer their make-or-break mass-market global product to be incapable of using this.

    VW and ChargePoint are already building 350kw & 400kw DC charging networks. It makes no sense for M3 to be "obsolete" out of the gate.

    Thoughts?
     
    • Disagree x 2
  2. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Well-Known Member

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    High-powered chargers != high-powered charging.

    Those high-power chargers depend significantly on higher-voltage, next generation packs. Cuirrent packs are commonly in the 300-400V range and the planned high-power chargers are up to 1000V. Maybe if you get yourself a Mission E you might be able to take advantage.

    The 350kW v3 Supercharger assumption is based on an Elon Musk tweet replying to a question prompted by the 350kW CCS charger planned in Baker. Elon Musk's reply has been _assumed_ by some to imply a 350kW version 3 Supercharger, but he never _actually_ wrote that. His reference to the 350kW charger as :"children's toys" was simply in my opinion because the 350kW charger will actually be a _total_power of 350kW for up to 4 cars (making it initially a 4-car charger), while Tesla already has much higher power sites and has 40-stall Superchargers planned for 2 California locations (including Baker) which would require each site to have at least _2.5 MW_.
     
    • Informative x 1
  3. KarenRei

    KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei

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    #3 KarenRei, Aug 9, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
    Musk's tweet wasn't to "imply a 350kW" V3, the implication of calling 350kW "a children's toy" would be that V3 is much more than 350kW.

    It could be that 350kW is just "V2 for more vehicles at once", but I doubt that. Tesla needs to up their game with Semi, and I doubt the plan is to tell them "connect 8 charging cables every time you stop". And the only way to do that (and fix the current cable overheat problems) is with active cooling. Something Tesla has been filing lots of patents for.

    Whether that would help M3? Well........

    IMHO, the only thing that's going to drop M3 charge times is an external reserve of coolant provided to the vehicle - not just ambient temperature, but chilled, to near freezing. With unlimited coolant provided at unlimited rates at the lowest acceptable temperature, heat could be removed much faster than with purely onboard limitations. Which might allow for faster charging. This would of course require a port that can accept coolant. There is none at the standard charge port (although the door covers a strangely large area relative to the plug size). Tesla has also patented an underside charging system, but I don't think we've seen any good shots of M3 undersides.

    Note all of the conditions that need to be true for V3 to elevate M3 charge rates, though:

    * V3 being able to deliver more current per vehicle, not just more vehicles
    * V3 delivering cooling (almost essential with the former case, but still...)
    * M3 having (standard or future option) or being able to be retrofit with a coolant-accepting charge port
    * Unlimited external chilled coolant improving the maximum acceptable charge rate (it should, but still....)

    In short? While it's possible, don't bet the farm on it.

    I suppose there is one more possibility - that charge rates are just a software limitation, out of an overabundance of caution that could be lifted in the future. Or a bad-faith presumption, that it's a wilfull maiming of the M3 to push MS and MX sales (highly doubtful) which could also be lifted in the future. But again... don't bet on it. They're larger format cells, it's natural that removing heat from them would be slower.
     
    • Informative x 1
  4. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2018: Drain the Sewer

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    Show me a Tesla competitor that charges at 350 kWh.
    No ? Ok, 300 kW.
    No ? Ok, 250 kW.
    No ? Ok, 200 kW.
    No ? Ok, 150 kW.
    No ? Ok, 100 kW.
    No ? Ok, 75 kW.
    No ? Remind me who is obsolete again.
     
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  5. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    The limitation is some combination of battery chemistry, capacity, electrical connections, and cooling. All if the car, not the Supercharger.

    The Supercharger itself is not the limitation. Obviously, since it can charge a Model S at higher power.

    But the 3's pack is also smaller for the same range. It takes less energy to move the smaller car. So the effective mile/hour charging is better than the lower power would suggest.
     
  6. scaesare

    scaesare Well-Known Member

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    As the current supercharger design is already capable of delivering more power than the car can accept, the limit does not appear to be the supercharger, but rather the car.

    Thus I expect no increase in charge acceptance based solely on a more powerful supercharger.
     
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