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Speculation of pack sizes (kWh)

Discussion in 'Cybertruck: Battery & Charging' started by insaneoctane, Nov 23, 2019.

  1. insaneoctane

    insaneoctane Active Member

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    The truck comes in 250, 300 & 500 mile ranges. Any guesses about the pack sizes necessary to make that happen? I'm thinking 85, 100, 175 kWh without any real calculations behind it....
     
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  2. Big Earl

    Big Earl bnkwupt

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    My money is on 100, 120 and 200 kWh.
     
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  3. Tslacg

    Tslacg Member

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    I could see this with the bump in range the 2170's will provide over the 18650
     
  4. insaneoctane

    insaneoctane Active Member

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    Your math is sound (percentage wise). If correct, it says a lot about aero and tire INefficiency if there MS gets 370 miles from the same pack size as only gets 250 miles on truck...
     
  5. Big Earl

    Big Earl bnkwupt

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    The truck is a monster. I’m figuring 400 Wh/mi empty.
     
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  6. Tslacg

    Tslacg Member

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    MS still doesn't have the newer cell structure either, does it? Id imagine wh/mi is even higher than 400. I'd venture to say it'll push 430-450.
     
  7. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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    From main thread:
     
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  8. Tslacg

    Tslacg Member

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    Can you link the thread? Or what's the title?
     
  9. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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    • Funny x 3
  10. Big Earl

    Big Earl bnkwupt

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    I’m just not seeing how the consumption can be that low. Maybe in the fantasy land of WLTP testing, but not EPA.

    I’m prepared to eat crow two years from now. We’ll see!
     
  11. Donar

    Donar Member

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    Honestly, I agree. I would also have guessed around 100/120/200 kWh.
    Possibly something like 90/115/200 kWh because the RWD drive version is probably more efficient and needs less than half of the battery capacity to go half as far as the trimotor truck.

    250 miles of range with the Model 3 LR pack would be insanely efficient for a truck. So I doubt it.
    Keep in mind the Model X 75D gets 238 miles of EPA-rated range...Sure, the 75D did not have the more efficient Model 3 motor, like the current 100D does and the Cybertruck might have, but still I would assume the Model X to be more efficient than the truck due to better aerodynamics, less weight and tires with less rolling resistance.
     
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  12. AltLogic

    AltLogic Member

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    A model 3 LR pack would work I believe. Here are the advantages a RWD Cybertruck would have over an X 75D:

    One efficient motor instead of two motors.
    Actual useable kWh of an X 75D is 72.6 kWh vs. 74-75 kWh in an LR model 3.
    Assuming it lowers automatically at higher speeds, it will be slightly taller, slightly wider but 2 feet longer than an X. The longer profile helps aerodynamics.
    The sloping rear will significantly help lower the Cd.
    The RWD Cybertruck will hopefully weigh less than a model X 75D.


    Disadvantages:
    Larger frontal area.
    Tires.

    A Dodge Ram and a Dodge Charger have the same combined EPA rated mileage with the same engine in RWD form. It is true for both the 6 cylinder and the 8 cylinder. I know it isn’t apples to apples comparison. But it seems surprising.
     
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  13. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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    Another data point for comparison:

    Cybertruck 500 miles with 200 kWh (assumed)
    Roadster 620 miles with 200 kWh
     
  14. RobDickinson

    RobDickinson Member

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    100, 120, 200.
     
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  15. insaneoctane

    insaneoctane Active Member

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    Historically, the MX showed better efficiency with AWD vs RWD, but the Raven platform may break this trend. I can't believe that the truck will weigh less than the MX, nor do I think it will have better aerodynamics. Just IMO.
     
  16. uujjj

    uujjj Member

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    To estimate the ratio between Model 3 and Cybertruck energy use, we can compare Ford F150 vs Ford Fusion energy use. The most efficient conventional powertrain Fusion gets 27 MPG combined. The most efficient F150 gets 22 MPG, meaning that the F150 uses 22% more energy per mile than the Fusion. If the ratio for Teslas is similar, the estimates of 75, 100, and 200kWh battery sizes is reasonable.
     
  17. RobDickinson

    RobDickinson Member

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    Model x gets what 310-320 range on 100kwh?

    No way the truck is the same, minimum 20% more needed.
     
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  18. AltLogic

    AltLogic Member

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    Ok. More math to help support the model 3 pack in the Cybertruck. I am going to compare a medium size sedan and 5,500 pound full size SUV with similar drivetrains. Then I am going to use the actual EPA test range on the RWD model 3 with aero wheels to estimate the range of a 5,500 pound SUV with the exact same drive unit. Keep in mind Tesla intentionally published a lower range for the RWD model 3 to keep it from competing with the pre raven Model S and to simplify the expectations for the AWD model 3’s.

    MPGe from fuel economy dot gov

    Model X LR 96
    Model 3 LR AWD 116

    Model 3 actual EPA testing range 334 miles.

    So (334miles)96MPGe/116MPGe would give you 276 miles.

    This would be for an aerodynamic SUV with 20” wheels and wide tires. I am hoping that with the exoskeleton, smaller battery pack, single drive unit, no falcon wing doors, smaller interior with a single screen the Cybertruck will weigh less than the Model X.

    I would guess closer to 75-80/100/180 kWh.
     
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  19. scaesare

    scaesare Well-Known Member

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    KWh as a measurement of energy content doesn't care about form factor. Gravimetric density between the two cell types is pretty close.
     
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  20. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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    Turn this around:

    Do we want the base version to be 75 kWh or 100 kWh?

    100 would mean Tesla have maybe halved the battery cost as well as reducing the cost of manufacture through stainless steel.

    75 would require Tesla to have reduced the weight of batteries significantly.

    Battery cost and weight reductions probably go hand in hand however.

    No bad outcomes here.
     
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