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Speculation on EPA 5-cycle ranges for 85 kWh Perf, 60 kWh and 40 kWh

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by gg_got_a_tesla, Jun 15, 2012.

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  1. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

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    #1 gg_got_a_tesla, Jun 15, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2012
    This has probably been discussed and dissected in various ways by some of TMC's number-crunching experts on various threads but, is there some distilled wisdom here?

    What could the range be on the EPA 5-cycle test for the various battery packs?!

    85 kWh Performance - ???
    85 kWh - 265 miles vs the 300 miles at a constant 55 mph (320 miles in the old 2-cycle test)

    (I assumed above that Elon/JB's blog was referring to the base 85 kWh config rather than the Perf which will surely be lower in the 5-cycle range department)

    60 kWh -??? vs the 230 miles at a constant 55 mph
    40 kWh - ??? vs the 160 miles at a constant 55 mph

    I posed this question to a Tesla prod specialist but, she didn't have anything to add at this time.

    Any educated guesses beyond simple math ratios?! Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Bardlebee

    Bardlebee Member

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    What's the difference between the 5 cycle and the 2 cycle? Why such a disparity?
     
  3. Rifleman

    Rifleman Now owns 2 Model S's!!!

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    I am going to guess :

    115 in normal mode, 135 for range mode for the 40 kWh
     
  4. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

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  5. jomo25

    jomo25 P4398

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    EPA has changed the test on how to rate mileage on EVs between the time the roadster was released and now. It used to be a 2-cycle test. Now it's a 5-cycle test. the ne test seems to be a 'more realistic' measure that is 'less optimistic' resulting in lower range estimates.
     
  6. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

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    That's a good point too; Tesla never indicated which mode (range or normal) all the published numbers so far have been clocked at. Normal mode numbers are probably better to work with given that range-mode charging 'hurts' the battery pack some.
     
  7. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

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    Sounds reasonable to me.

    BTW, the 300 mile number is actually the (probably rounded) range @ 55 mph. The 2-cycle test number is 320 miles.
     
  8. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

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    Well, in the few cases where you really the need the full range, you'll probably use range mode, unless the standard mode gives you just enough, by coincidence.
     
  9. Rifleman

    Rifleman Now owns 2 Model S's!!!

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    On the 60 and 85 packs, yes. The 40 kWh is a different animal, as the difference is small to begin with. My plan for the 40 is to use standard mode, and never plan to make a trip longer than standard modes stated range. I can allways access the bottom 10% (guess on percentage) if I get into trouble. Charging in range mode on the 40 will only give you about 10 miles that you would not otherwise have access to, but will damage you battery, and eventually render a pack that is just barely big enough to be just a little bit to small. Battery degradation is going to be critical on the 40 kWh Model S.
     
  10. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

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    That's a valid point, as then you are more frequently at that range. (Though you might still use it a small number of times a year, at least.)
     
  11. smorgasbord

    smorgasbord Active Member

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    Perf will have the same EPA range since the car is driven exactly the same way.

    At 311.8 watts/EPA-5-cycle-mile, the 60 kWh battery goes 187 miles and the 40 kWh battery goes 125 miles. There may be some variations from car weight differences, as well as top-off/actually out battery performance.
     
  12. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    @smorgasbord - I thought the Perf has better cabling, PEMs, etc. As such, shouldn't resistances and losses be (perhaps immeasurably for EPA) slightly less? I guess I'm saying, if anything shouldn't the Perf get better results than non-Perf?
     
  13. strider

    strider Active Member

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    Yeah, for this purpose I think it will be immeasurable.
     
  14. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    Theoretically, probably a little better...but probably the tire size choice has a larger impact than this stuff. Tesla has already stated the two get (for all intents and purposes) equivalent range.
     
  15. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    For the presumably normal driving in the tests larger cable size shouldn't matter. If you aren't pushing large currents the resistance difference probably won't show up.
     
  16. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

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    The variations should be significant, if 160 miles/40 KWh and 230 miles/60 kWh, vs 300 miles/85 kWh, at constant 55 mph, are anything to go by. Compared to that, the 5-cycle test might have both advantages and disadvantages for a lighter pack: the high-speed test emphasizes aero versus weight, while tests including acceleration at city speeds, further emphasizes weight.
     
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