Speculation on Model Y Features

[shrspeedblade]

I was just reading about how Model Y will be built on its own platform, not the Model 3 platform, which got me to speculating if it will in fact share a platform with the future Model S. By 2020 the Model S platform will be 8 years old and about due for a "2nd generation platform", Tesla is hardly a big enough company to have a separate platform for every model, and they probably have the ability and know-how now to shrink the Model S slightly without losing cabin space.

A future X might be better off sharing a platform with a future Tesla truck, that's how many large SUVs are done, as they are more akin to the trucks than large sedans. Just musing.

 

[Laban]

My best guess:

• Both the S and the X will move to the Y platform.

or

• The next generation S/X will be even more high end, large battery packs - high performance only. They will continue to be made on the current less automated production line which might be preferred for a "high end only new technology testbed" type of platform. Some of the Y "features" will be moved over to the S/X, the 3km -> 100m wiring harness..
• The Y platform will instead spawn another class of vehicles which will sit between the 3/Y and S/X in size/prize. Audi A6..

 

[11thIndian]

I think once the Model Y comes out- Tesla could get a lot of mileage out of body variations. Convertibles, hatches, wagons... all built on the various existing platforms.

But I think that Model Y is going to be the next step construction experiment to be able to scale production much faster than the Model 3. Eventually Tesla will want to leverage those production efficiencies across the whole lineup, but from the customers perspective the Y won't be a "better" car. But the margins may be better for Tesla.

 

[arnis]

My best guess:

• Both the S and the X will move to the Y platform.

or

• The next generation S/X will be even more high end, large battery packs - high performance only. They will continue to be made on the current less automated production line which might be preferred for a "high end only new technology testbed" type of platform. Some of the Y "features" will be moved over to the S/X, the 3km -> 100m wiring harness..
• The Y platform will instead spawn another class of vehicles which will sit between the 3/Y and S/X in size/prize. Audi A6..

S and X are low volume vehicles. Tesla is already reaching the upper edge of S-curve for those.
Y will be high volume platform, like 3.
A6 is like 5-series, is like S.
A4 is like 3-series, is like 3.

Model Y should be like sleek BMW 3 GT or BMW 4 Gran Coupe or more bulky like X1 or X3. My bet is not on X-line.

 

[Laban]

A6 is like 5-series, is like S.
A4 is like 3-series, is like 3.

I would say that the Model S is more like the Audi A7-A8/BMW 6-7 series.

Audi A4 - $33k
A6 - $47k
A7 $69k

Not saying that Tesla will need a Audi A6 competitor anytime soon but they will eventually face competition in that segment.

 

[arnis]

Pricewise maybe, but car itself no. This has been discussed a lot. Tesla is far from luxury.
It is slowly catching up 5-series. Interior comfort, seat, sound dampening, ride quality etc.
They both are premium. That word is more about price than refinement.

We should not put Leaf and A4 in the same category even if they cost similar.
And also raw amount of features doesn't change vehicle luxuriousness. Leaf has rear seat heaters.
This is even rare on 7-series.

 

[Laban]

Pricewise maybe, but car itself no. This has been discussed a lot. Tesla is far from luxury.
It is slowly catching up 5-series. Interior comfort, seat, sound dampening, ride quality etc.
They both are premium. That word is more about price than refinement.

Perhaps, although some people might argue that superior performance, AP, infotainment, OTA updates... are more important.

 

[Model 3]

I was just reading about how Model Y will be built on its own platform, not the Model 3 platform, which got me to speculating if it will in fact share a platform with the future Model S.

That begs the question "what is to be considered a «platform»?".

If you are talking about the same "skateboard" (if it still will be a skateboard) I think you are wrong. Model S+X will still be a bigger car, longer and wider. Maybe not much differed in the wheelbase, but anyway wider and gives room for the more batteries it need to compensate for the higher weight.

But if you are talking about using parts of what they have used on the newer cars like Model 3+Y, then yes. A new version of the Model S and later X will use the new battery cells, new motors, new chargers (and perhaps new charing port?) and wiring harness +++. And I agree with @11thIndian :

Eventually Tesla will want to leverage those production efficiencies across the whole lineup,

Even if Model S+X don't need that extra production speed, less workers on that line makes more stable quality and lower production cost = better margins.

But then - will Model S need a full makeover in ~2020? Or will they just upgrade it a bit at the time in a lot of different upgrades/face-lifts like they have done so far? Or will they still be without competition in their marked segment, so they can keep on producing the "old" Model S for an another 2-4 years? Maybe upgrade it at the time Mode X is ripe for an upgrade? Like in 2023-4?

 

[Laban]

But if you are talking about using parts of what they have used on the newer cars like Model 3+Y, then yes. A new version of the Model S and later X will use the new battery cells, new motors, new chargers (and perhaps new charing port?) and wiring harness +++. And I agree with @11thIndian :

Even if Model S+X don't need that extra production speed, less workers on that line makes more stable quality and lower production cost = better margins.

That begs the question, how many workers/car can Tesla remove on the S/X assembly line without making a complete redesign ?

New battery cells, motors, chargers doesn't change anything, it's just lowering the costs on the parts. And i actually doubt that the "3 km -> 100m wiring harness" removes that much work since you still need a plug for every light, button, sensor.. in the car:

The wiring harness itself should of course be far cheaper though.

 

[Model 3]

That begs the question, how many workers/car can Tesla remove on the S/X assembly line without making a complete redesign ?

Of course, no one knows... But I'm sure they can remove *some* workers from that line without redesigning anything on the car, but just by redesigning "the machine that build the machine". And even more by doing some - but still less then complete - incremental redesigns. But they may of course find that this is not worth the modifications to the production line/car until they do a complete redesign.

And i actually doubt that the "3 km -> 100m wiring harness" removes that much work since you still need a plug for every light, button, sensor..

You may be right on this, but on the other hand, by designing that harness as a buss it will probably only be *one* type of plug for any device, and that plug is probably designed from the start to be easy to plug in by robots. And that will save more money then by just making the harness itself cheaper.

 

[Ludus]

I think the intention is to move to a true "skate" which requires complete drive by wire including eliminating the steering column. When they get there the skate, battery pack and body are each plug and play modules that just lock together in seconds. Current regulation hasn't changed fast enough to allow this for M3.

Objections to full drive by wire are mostly based on the idea of a mechanical backup for safety, but this of course is moot if the car is designed and approved for full autonomy with nobody even in the drivers seat.

A real skate/body design is a breakthrough for manufacturability. There is no need for separate right and left hand drive models. Controls can be plugged in either side or neither. New models can be designed easily as new plug and play bodies. Assembly is simplified and there are fewer parts.

M3 had to be out on a timetable that made true drive by wire and skate design unachievable so the next model has to have a new platform. The alien dreadnought won't be designed to build platforms that still have mechanical linkages and right or left hand driving controls.

 

[Model 3]

... but this of course is moot if the car is designed and approved for full autonomy with nobody even in the drivers seat.

But it is not moot if is even an option to drive the car without using the FSD. And if that is not an option they may just as well drop the steering wheel and pedals all together..

 

[arnis]

Technically, bendable non twistable metal cable, is mechanical link that can easily link torsional force between two sides.
And pass regulations.