TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Speed Difference on Performance + Vs Performance & Tire Wear Concerns

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by jrettinger, Jul 1, 2013.

  1. jrettinger

    jrettinger Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    Rettinger
    After years of reading and research I’m finally getting ready to pull the trigger on my Model S but one decision (aside from the agonizing color choice) is proving to be incredible difficult. Is there an actual speed difference between P and P+? Is the P+ faster in any way? I am aware of all the handling and range benefits of the plus, but I can’t seem to find any concrete evidence on the speed aspect. The only trepidation I have on pulling the trigger on the + is the tire wear issue (I may be overreacting). On the Performance model (with 21’s), the tires can be rotated, offsetting my fear of replacement every 6,000 is miles (maybe I’ve been reading the tire wear thread too much?). But on the Performance plus model, the tires cannot be rotated. I know the cost of the car is high, but for some reason, the idea of replacing rear tires at $400 a pop every few months is really hard to me to accept (well, in reality, it would be really hard for me to explain to my wife). Am I being crazy and should just go for the Plus? Handling is not a top priority for me, but I would like the fastest (on a straight line). Any advice from owners or forum readers would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all for your help.
     
  2. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    Messages:
    18,235
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    Not sure about speed difference but should be very minimal if anything. The tires are closer to $700 for the P85+ including installation. If tire replacement costs are a concern that is something to consider. P85 Contis last about 8-10k miles it seems and Tesla installs them for $380 I think. Tires can be found cheaper elsewhere.
     
  3. Rowlock

    Rowlock Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2013
    Messages:
    47
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, CA
    The only difference in straight line speed is going to be present in less than ideal traction conditions. The Plus will stick better when grip is marginal, letting you put down more torque before the traction control system has to do its thing, so you'll get better overall acceleration. But if road conditions are good enough to give you full torque without wheel spin, the standing time to 60 should be about the same.

    In corners, the Plus will definitely be able to run faster without breaking away the back end.
     
  4. jrettinger

    jrettinger Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    Rettinger
    @rowlock

    Thank you for that.
     
  5. Zextraterrestrial

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    3,636
    Location:
    Humboldt/Los Altos
    ...and accelerating out of corners in P+ will be better
    as in turning right or left from a stoplight at full acceleration. Can't do it with standard 21" tires and widths.
     
  6. Blurry_Eyed

    Blurry_Eyed MS Sig #267, MX Sig # 761

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Messages:
    562
    I still have my original tires on my P85 (21" Contis) and they are still doing fine. Just crossed 12k miles on them. I occasionally drive the car hard and my wife took it to a driver education course where they did slalom and other training maneuvers. I took it to a great alignment shop in our area (Bellevue, WA) at about 4,000 miles and they aligned it to Tesla specs. We inspect the tires every 4,000 miles. There is evidence of inside wear, especially on the rears and they will flip the tires inside out when the inside wear gets worse to get more life out of the tire. But at the rate my tires are wearing, I may be able to get 20k miles out of them.
     
  7. Kauai

    Kauai Signature PS588

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    55
    Location:
    Bay Area
    I also have the original tires on my P85 (21" Contis), and also just crossed 12k. After a few months of flooring it at every stop light, and general looking for chances to carve through mountains and pretend my commute is on the autobahn, I now drive fast when necessary (or when an opportunity presents itself ;). The tires look fine, and as noted above, a bit more inside wear. I also expect to get 20K or more miles on them. I had Tesla rotate the tires at 4K miles and had alignment and wheel balance all around at 11.5K as part of the 12K service. YMMV.
     
  8. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    Messages:
    18,235
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    Driving style obviously plays a big difference. I haven't had my alignment checked yet though so maybe something there. I did have the tires rotated at 4,000 miles as well and have 8,500. Backs are a 4/32" and fronts at 7/32". For wet traction, I thought you were supposed to change at 4/32" so will probably get all 4 new tires soon unless getting just the rears is the way to go. That would just mean going back in 3,000 miles or so to get the fronts done.
     
  9. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    15,487
    Just another data point:
    3/32" just reported on mine with about 8500 miles. I'm getting them replaced at Tesla's recommendation before my 2-3k trip (I'll be wandering a bit on the way down) through Oregon and California.
     
  10. joesp85+

    joesp85+ Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2013
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    see my thread about my peformance 85+. Just got mine 2 days ago. Handles beautifully, but its definitely a harsher ride quality. If you only need straight line accel, and want better compliance, then go with the regualr P85
     
  11. mnx

    mnx 2013 P85

    Joined:
    May 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,281
    Location:
    Ancaster, Canada
    my 19" goodyears are at 9/32" on all four corners after going 2500km on them (and 54km of driving on the track). They appear to start at 10/32, so I think they'll go for ~20,000km (and another few evenings at the track). :)
     
  12. xray

    xray P85 6313 - X Res 3450

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    146
    Location:
    Newport Coast, CA
    I replaced the rear Michelin Pilot sports 21" at 6500 miles because the rear tires had a side wall defect from a bit of aggressive driving onto a curb.
    the wear was definitely more pronounced in the rear at 5/32 compared to 8/32 for the front tires. I replaced the rear tires with Hankook ($190 each) and so right now I'm a bit out of whack with Michelins still on the front. I plan to replace the front Michelins eventually also with Hankook.

    By the way, I am not capable of telling much of difference between the Michelins that came with the car and the Hankook as far as performance is concerned. I'm sure there are difference to those that can tell but for me, the main difference is the price (about $490 to $520 for the Michelins).

    I got the car before the P85+ was an option so I don't envy your choice. Although, on the bright side, either way you'll end up with the best car out there.
     
  13. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    Messages:
    18,235
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    How many mm do you have left? Just curious.

    Also, changing tires is a pain. Would people just replace the rears (I may just go with Contis again as Tesla will only install Contis now Michellins now and I don't feel like taking the Model S to the local tire shop yet) and then go back for new fronts in a few thousand miles or just replace all 4? I may just replace all 4 and then rotate more often next time.
     
  14. fiksegts

    fiksegts Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,049
    Location:
    Miami
    won't be any difference in acceleration/straight line speed... you can always put the same tires on the regular P85 for the extra range, my car doesn't spin the tires from a dead stop unless the road is in bad condition or it's wet out...

    I'm a huge performance buff (McLaren, Lamborghini, Ford GT) and don't think the "+" is worth the $6,500, the Model S can't be a track car anyway since it's pulls power after a few stints of continuous all out driving...

    maybe Tesla threw in some more power for the "+" and didn't mention it, but that's yet to be tested....
     

Share This Page