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Speed limit database updated?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by DaddyP713, Apr 18, 2018.

  1. GasKilla

    GasKilla No Gas Know Peace

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    I'm pretty sure Tesla isn't using the TomTom map data, but I could be wrong.
     
  2. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    It appears Tesla is only using the TomTom speed limit data, which has been updated recently in my S 100D on 10.4.

    The major neighborhood street is now properly marked as 40MPH - which the software was 55MPH up until recently.

    However...

    Highways with construction completed within the last several years in our areas still appear to have the wrong speed limit in places, showing the speed limits posted in the construction zones (45MPH) vs. the current highway speed limits (65MPH). When running AutoSteer in those areas, the software will quickly slow down when AP believes it is no longer on a highway.
     
  3. ponzu

    ponzu Member

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    What do you think Tesla is using?
     
  4. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    I don’t know what they’re using, but it was wrong before and is differently wrong now.
     
  5. croman

    croman Active Member

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    It's TomTom and they aren't very good at changing the database. It seems that Tesla's ADAS tiles also influence the data.
     
  6. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    Tesla hasn't officially confirmed this... So, like most of Tesla's software, we're just guessing on this.

    It appears Tesla switched speed limit data providers last summer - moving to TomTom.

    The TomTom data appears to be much worse than the data from the previous provider, with more areas with missing or incorrect speed limits.

    While they appeared to update the speed limit data recently (a local road that was marked for 55, which has an actual speed limit of 40, has been corrected), the current speed limit data still has a lot of problems. And this can affect operations - especially when running under AutoSteer on highways and the speed limit data incorrectly believes the speed limit is much lower, causing AutoSteer to immediately brake in the middle of high-speed traffic.

    This problem is compounded by the lack of speed limit sign recognition for AP2 cars.

    Because of this, you should be prepared to re-apply acceleration whenever you are operating under AutoSteer, in case the software decides to brake quickly (which is also true when AP2 detects a phantom object ahead, and tries to slow down).
     
  7. dbldwn02

    dbldwn02 Member

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    I just did a road trip to Yellowstone from Colorado this past week and speedlimits were incorrect about 70-80% of the time. It's painful on the two lane roads. Can't use Autopilot for 100s of miles at a time because the limit is 10mph too low.

    Also, I can't use AP to/from work anymore since all the limits are 10mph too low as well. Hoping they get the Speed Limit Reading update pushed sooner rather than later.
     
  8. ponzu

    ponzu Member

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    #28 ponzu, May 25, 2018
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
    Is creating a voice "bug report" understood to have any (positive) impact, or could be a waste?

    Is adding speed limits via TomTom's Map Share™ Reporter understood to have an impact? Does TomTom accept these changes? Are they propagated to Tesla in a timely fashion?

    Thank you for clarifying that braking for phantoms and braking because of a missing speed limit are two separate issues.
     
  9. ponzu

    ponzu Member

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    Obviously not a sustainable situation. I wonder when and how Tesla will resolve it.

    A friend suggested the current "brake if speed limit is not known" approach is overcompensating for the safety concerns and is aimed at preventing accusations rather than assisting the users.

    If I were programming the AP that was blind to the posted speed limits and went strictly by the geodata, I would say: "if no speed limit is available for the road segment, assume the same speed limit as the last known speed limit". Not "assume speed limit of 45 mph".
     
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  10. dbldwn02

    dbldwn02 Member

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    Agreed...Speed changes are very abrupt. I'm not trying to get rear ended. I know most states auto fault the tailing car but I still won't have my car for weeks or months.
     
  11. ponzu

    ponzu Member

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    #31 ponzu, May 25, 2018
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
    If (and when) I get my Model 3, I am prepared to drive with EAP engaged in the beta tester state of mind, with a foot near the pedal and a finger on the TomTom app ready to report the missing speed limit, and another on the voice command button to report the same issue to Tesla. One can see fun in that. Then again, one may only want to engage in this type of driving under safest of conditions.

    UPDATE. No error reporting feature in the TomTom iOS app. Only on native TomTom devices (of which Tesla apparently is not officially one) and on the web.
     
  12. croman

    croman Active Member

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    Tesla initially directed people to make reports on TomTom's website but nothing actually changed. Those reports were useless.
     
  13. GasKilla

    GasKilla No Gas Know Peace

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    Are you on AP1 or AP2? My car (AP1) will read the posted speed limit signs and adjuste AP accordingly, which is great unless you pass a school zone when school isn't in session
     
  14. Rediah

    Rediah Member

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    There is a stretch of highway (55 mph) with HOV lanes (65 mph) in the middle. Autopilot see no issues when driving on the main highway but slows to 40 mph on HOV for about a mile in 2 sections. It shows the speed limit as 35 mph for those 2 sections. I called Roadside Assistance and they suggested submitting a bug report when it happens but now I’m not sure how much that’ll help. It’s really dangerous when you’re going 65 mph and the car slows to 40 mph all of a sudden.

    I don’t think Tesla wants to hear in the news about another accident with Autopilot engaged.
     
  15. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    The speed limit database is so bad, Tesla really needs to provide a way to "crowdsource" corrections. Unlike the map database, the speed limit database shouldn't be that large - and they should be able to download updates more frequently to all cars.

    We're approaching one year on the "new" speed limit database, and there isn't any obvious reason why Tesla hasn't done something about the many areas with missing or incorrect speed limits.

    This situation will be completely unacceptable when EAP/FSD start taking more control - and will need accurate speed limits.
     
  16. DriverOne

    DriverOne Supporting Member

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    If the cameras start reading speed signs, they can build their own DB - which should lead to increased accuracy in navigation estimates.
     
  17. ModelNforNerd

    ModelNforNerd Active Member

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    My town has put up "Speed Limit 25" "Unless otherwise noted" signs. They are on the same pole, but 2 physically separate signs. The AP cameras ignore the 2nd half of that, and slam on the brakes, because it thinks the 45 just dropped to 25.
     
  18. henderrj

    henderrj Member

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    It is a little scary that we have an autopilot based entirely on Vision which can read numbers, but not letters!
     
  19. ModelNforNerd

    ModelNforNerd Active Member

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    I know Elon is against AI taking over....but maybe injecting just a little bit of context into some of these driving situations wouldn't be a bad idea.


    (and yes, I know that is supposedly coming with the whole neural net side of AP2/2.5+. But we're not there yet....)
     
  20. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    In our area, HOV lanes can have speeds different from the mainlanes, with the speed limit signs sitting just inside the HOV barrier, adjacent to the main lanes. It can be difficult to determine which lanes the speed limit signs are controlling. On some of the HOV signs, they've added a small HOV marking - but that may not be present everywhere.

    Same thing with the exit ramp and frontage road signs - which are often adjacent to the main lanes - and those usually don't have any markings indicating they are not intended for the main lanes.

    Just reading the signs isn't good enough - because even human drivers can easily misinterpret the signs.

    But Tesla has more data than just the signs - they can also look at the behavior of the drivers in that area. If the software detects a pattern of drivers adjusting speed when passing a sign (assuming normal traffic), that could confirm which lanes the sign applies to.

    Noticed a similar issue yesterday driving to a restaurant near a large mall. The new NAV software routed the car completely around the outside of the mall, when the obvious path was to drive into the entrance for the mall and go directly to the restaurant. Tesla could use the road data they are accumulating from the cars to also adjust the routing algorithm based on driving patterns.

    "Crowdsourcing" road/speed limit data could help considerably - especially with so many errors in the speed limit database.
     
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