[Spoiler Alert + Mild Speculation] Tesla has created a monster!

[SageBrush]

There may have been a more efficient structure possible with the 2170 layout that allowed them to squeeze more battery in there? We probably won't know until somebody takes apart a 2170, which won't be soon.

Already done, in detail. Check out youtube.

By the way, the roll length inside was measured as 133% that of the 18650 battery used in the Model S and X

 

[JRP3]

but two cells of the same chemistry will always have the same voltage at the same level of charge.

Prof Dahn is working with Tesla on higher voltage NMC.

 

[SageBrush]

Prof Dahn is working with Tesla on higher voltage NMC.

I think that is something different, meaning being able to drive the cell to a higher voltage and not suffer the degradation consequences.

If my dusty chemistry is remembered correctly, a Li half cell with the same pair has the same Nernst potential.

 

[JRP3]

I think the theoretical max voltage is still higher than any actual cell out there. You can find additives and materials which suppress the higher voltage degradation consequences to get closer to max operating voltage.

 

[Brando]

cell 2170 - what is inside

 

[Brando]

People seem to have forgotten Elon/Tesla hired Audi director of production for A4 and TWO automation companies.

Tesla hires Audi’s Senior Director of Production to build the Model 3 program
Tesla doubles down on automation, acquires Perbix maker of automated manufacturing equipment
Tesla Buying Germany's Grohmann Engineering To Automate, Accelerate Production

How about comparison of Chevy Bolt - original plan to build 30,000 for US and another 30,000 for Europe = 60,000 Total.
And they made <24,000 the first year.
GM beat Tesla to market - we shall see how 1st year of production of Bolt compares to Model 3.

 

[wdolson]

There are plenty of people comfortable with taking a Tesla battery pack apart around here. EVTV has already gotten a salvage Model 3 that they are taking apart, but I don't know if they plan on taking the battery pack apart to the cell level. @wk057 would be a good candidate but he thinks that the salvage Model 3s have been going for too much, but I suspect the price will start to drop as more of them get wrecked.

I was talking about taking apart a cell, not the pack. It looks like people have taken apart a 2170. The electrolyte appears to dry, which is unusual for a li-ion cell. I didn't know there were any dry electrolyte chemistries in production.

Here is an article from just this month of an announced breakthrough of a solid electrolyte li-ion battery:
No more wet batteries: Imec makes breakthrough in electric car technology | Flanders Today

It looks like the electrolyte in the 2170 is a powder which doesn't make it completely solid, but it isn't a liquid either. That in itself seems notable to me. Maybe the powder electrolyte allows for higher energy density seen by Munro? The talk about coming solid state cells has estimated energy densities 2X or more over the best li-ion chemistries available.

People seem to have forgotten Elon/Tesla hired Audi director of production for A4 and TWO automation companies.

Tesla hires Audi’s Senior Director of Production to build the Model 3 program
Tesla doubles down on automation, acquires Perbix maker of automated manufacturing equipment
Tesla Buying Germany's Grohmann Engineering To Automate, Accelerate Production

How about comparison of Chevy Bolt - original plan to build 30,000 for US and another 30,000 for Europe = 60,000 Total.
And they made <24,000 the first year.
GM beat Tesla to market - we shall see how 1st year of production of Bolt compares to Model 3.

Unfortunately it doesn't look like Elon Musk listened to the Audi guy enough. One thing Munro talked about was Elon is too enamored of automation. He is an expert in what robots can and can't do and he felt Tesla was overdoing it with applying robots to production. I thought Munro's opinions of Tesla were pretty good. He made the point that where Tesla is falling down is on "dinosaur tech", bending metal and making the car itself.

Tesla is very flexible and capable of change. I hope they do get their production issues sorted out. Elon rethought production after the Model X mess and they did implement some lessons learned, but it looks like they went down some dead end roads in the process.

I do expect Tesla will beat the Bolt's first year production numbers. They are over 1K per week now, and they would beat the Bolt's first year production numbers with just averaging 500 a week.

 

[Brando]

side note: GigaFactory creates paste of Li electrolyte and coats the metal foil.
- Coating room is sealed and the volatiles are captured and recycled. Prevents pollution and recycling is always good.

Two Model 3 owners - starts at 12:35

 

[JRP3]

That cell dissection video has a number of errors as I and others pointed out in the comment section. I don't believe it uses powdered electrolyte, never heard of such, and I'm not even sure that was a new Tesla 2170 cell.

 

[wdolson]

That cell dissection video has a number of errors as I and others pointed out in the comment section. I don't believe it uses powdered electrolyte, never heard of such, and I'm not even sure that was a new Tesla 2170 cell.

I suppose it's possible the cell dried out before being dissected.

 

[dhrivnak]

side note: GigaFactory creates paste of Li electrolyte and coats the metal foil.
- Coating room is sealed and the volatiles are captured and recycled. Prevents pollution and recycling is always good.

Two Model 3 owners - starts at 12:35

When Jack First got his Model 3 he was not very impressed. But it is nice to see he has changed his tune as both guys like the Model 3 better than their Model S. I too prefer the 3 over the S. One big reason is the Model 3 is much more efficient.