Given the motor chronology and the company product history, it would not be to farfetched to think that Tesla knew they could go faster if they had more windings but it would need to be hand-wound then somewhere along the line, manufacturing figured out a way to do more winds with the same automated process they had been using up to that point for very little cost increase per unit. Then when marketing said how much they can make on each upgrade with a simple firmware or chip replacement, it was more cost effective than the small profit made on a handwound motor.
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Sport vs. Non-Sport the same motor?
- Thread starter DrComputer
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I don't know anything about the innards of the 2010 motors or PEM firmware, but there have been times when some manufacturers did sell detuned vehicles. For instance, in France, Superbikes were limited to 100hp so the manufacturers installed airflow restrictor plates that some customers found easy to remove.
Also, Japan had a soft rule that no car should make more than 286hp so some high end cars (like Turbo Rx7, 3000GT, NSX, WRX STI, Nissan GT-R etc.) all seemed to make exactly that power. Many used firmware to detune, but eventually many just made 300+hp but only advertised them as 286hp.
Also, Japan had a soft rule that no car should make more than 286hp so some high end cars (like Turbo Rx7, 3000GT, NSX, WRX STI, Nissan GT-R etc.) all seemed to make exactly that power. Many used firmware to detune, but eventually many just made 300+hp but only advertised them as 286hp.
When I did one of my test drives in a 2008 in Menlo Park, I skipped the suggested route and drove up Page Mill Road into the mountains. Its winding and climbs over 2000 feet. I weigh 160 and had a 200 pound passenger. We managed to get the PEM to overheat and limit power several times on the way up. It was actually a little dissapointing that it kept doing that.
With my 2010, though, I haven't gotten the temps to budge (at least that I've seen). Of course, I haven't tried hauling a 200 pound guy up Page Mill, either, but I did drive my 9-year-old son over Snoqualmie and Blewett passes twice with no effect. I suspect that the 2010 is cooled much better, and I'm happy about it.
I didn't and I too suspect it's firmware; I keep asking/joking with the team in NYC but they're maintaining that it's PEM and motor.
Now, here's a conspiracy for you; if the Sport is more powerful, how come both power gauges are calibrated to 200KW?
To: Any Sport owner out there: what does your power gauge show on full power?
I think the difference is that wider tires allow for more torque at <10mph and that's the 0.2 seconds.
Now, here's a conspiracy for you; if the Sport is more powerful, how come both power gauges are calibrated to 200KW?
To: Any Sport owner out there: what does your power gauge show on full power?
I think the difference is that wider tires allow for more torque at <10mph and that's the 0.2 seconds.
I doubt it is explained by tires.
If you go here:
http://www.teslamotors.com/roadster/specs
max power output is the same (215kW for both model variants).
Basically they boost low speed current in the Sport. So you get more off the line torque, but then acceleration past say 60MPH isn't all that different.
Roadster _Sport: 295 lb-ft at 0-5,100 rpm 288 hp (215 kW) at 4,400-6,000 <== More torque off the line.
Roadster Regular: 273 lb-ft at 0-5,400 rpm 288 hp (215 kW) at 5,000-6,000 <== Same max power at high RPMs.
Sorry; that link only works if we have the same settings for 'posts-per-page'. If you click the post number '#19' on this one; that is the link to the actual post, would you mind including that? Thanks.
I agree that it's unlikely that they'd outright 'tell fib's' as my mother would put it. But, are all motors hand-wound? Is the hand-winding the key or is it an extra row of ibgts in the PEM that does the heavy lifting or is it simply firmware in the PEM coupled to tested/selected, best performing motors & fat tires to handle the shove?.. AH, what I'd give to see behind the curtain!
One measure; do all TM employees that have a Roadster have a sport? That'd be a firmware give-away!
One measure; do all TM employees that have a Roadster have a sport? That'd be a firmware give-away!
I've only met one that owns a Roadster, but his was a non-sport 1.5. I think he's swapped it though for a Sport 2x now. His name was Elon. He didn't say which department he was in but I got the sense that he has a hand in them all.
I believe Tesla accomplishes this in two ways. 1) they hand wind the motor with slightly larger wire and achieve a lower resistance motor. 2) The PEM firmware is allowed to output more motor current (720A vs 665A) for a brief period (at launch) whenever the PEM heat sink temp is < 45*C. If the VDS displays "Performance" in Red, the torque of the Sport will be identical to the regular roadster.
that being said, I would think it could be possible to implement some sort of torque boost on the non-sport 2.0 by running the PEM hotter for brief period too. It wouldn't be as good without the motor change, but there would be some improvement.
I don't know if the 2.5 sport has different limits. I can find out, but I need an owner with a 2.5 sport to give me and my 4-channel CAN dataloger a test ride :smile:
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No, they would not use a larger gauge. That would make things much worse. They are simply squeezing in a modest number of extra turns of wire. Whenever you wind a coil, once you're beyond two layers the wire inevitably gets all jumbled up. By hand-winding you can watch and adjust the process to level out the layers. (I used to design electromagnetic sensors, and have built quite a few prototypes, so I have some experience in this area!)
The DC resistance goes up linearly with the number of turns, but the magnetic force goes up N-squared. Adding some turns will have a negligible impact on resistance, but will increase the torque.
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