Spotify Audio Quality vs Slacker

[Kevy Baby]

If anything, spending money on expensive audio equipment should demonstrate a certain appreciation for high quality audio reproduction, rather than an "uneducated opinion" as the previous poster wrote.

Here is the context of my "uneducated opinion" comment: if you haven't taken the time listening what can be done in a car, then you really can't comment as to what it sounds like.

And how much one spends is not an indication of the level of knowledge; improved probability perhaps, but if one were to buy a pair of B&W Nautilus speakers doesn't make them an expert. (or hell, let's go nuts and get a pair of WAMM Master Chronosonics - then I must be a freakin' genius*)

*Though I have to admit that I would love to hear these

 

[Knightshade]

If you've driven nothing but Honda Civics in your life, you don't know what it's like to drive a Porsche. So yes, I'd say that is true.

But maybe the honda guy has owned 20 different models over decades and can rebuild them in his sleep...and his custom work on the car let's him whip Porsches asses weekly at autocross too.

Meanwhile the Porsche guy only ever drives it on public roads, pays the dealer for 100% of his service since he doesn't know how to access the engine, and doesn't know what a clutch pedal is, and he ABSOLUTELY paid $10,000 more for the PCCB brake option that does him literally no good of any kind ever because the dealer told him IT WAS EXPENSIVE SO IT MUST BE BETTER...and more than you can afford kid, PORSCHE!


So no- spending more doesn't inherently mean you know jack or *sugar* about the thing you bought.



Even on the bottom end of home stereo equipment "spent more" doesn't mean "better" automatically...(see also anything that says Bose on it)... I can give you examples of $50-100 speakers that sound better than lots of $200-300 speakers.

And $500 a pair speakers that sound better than some $2500 a pair speakers.

And every step up the chain.

If
If anything, spending money on expensive audio equipment should demonstrate a certain appreciation for high quality audio reproduction, rather than an "uneducated opinion" as the previous poster wrote.

It doesn't though.

The only thing it demonstrates is you spent more money.

For all we know you walked into a super high end custom audio place, after getting out of your Porsche, and just said "I have an unlimited budget- I want the best!"

And the salesman sold you the highest price/highest commission stuff in the store, not necessarily the best stuff in the store.

And now has his own Porsche thanks to you!

 

[Eno Deb]

Here is the context of my "uneducated opinion" comment: if you haven't taken the time listening what can be done in a car, then you really can't comment as to what it sounds like

I have listened to quite a few car audios, including some very high end ones. None of them can solve the fundamental problem that a car is just a terrible listening environment. Optimal speaker design and placement is impossible due to the space constraints, there are lots of reflective surfaces (windows, possibly glass roof), phase errors, road noise (that easily dwarfs compression artifacts by orders of magnitude), and other issues.

As an example, when listening to a high quality live recording on a great audio system, it builds a highly detailed stereo "stage" where you can exactly pinpoint every single instrument and noises that the artists make. This is physically impossible in a car due to the above mentioned issues. Many people confuse things like loudness, certain non-linearities in frequency response, "big bass", or digital manipulations like Tesla's "immersive audio" with good audio. But they are not. They may sound entertaining, but have little to do with accurate reproduction of the source material.

 

[Kevy Baby]

I have listened to quite a few car audios, including some very high end ones. None of them can solve the fundamental problem that a car is just a terrible listening environment.

A car is a less than ideal listening environment, but there are a lot of steps that one can take to lessen the negatives. I would not go so far as to say it is "terrible."

Optimal speaker design and placement is impossible due to the space constraints, there are lots of reflective surfaces (windows, possibly glass roof), phase errors, ...[snip]..., and other issues.

ANY speaker placement is impossible to get perfect (even at home). Yes, a car is more difficult, but an experienced installer/tuner knows how to minimize the negatives.

Optimal speaker design and placement is impossible due to ...road noise (that easily dwarfs compression artifacts by orders of magnitude)...

1. There are a lot of measures that can be taken to minimize this impact. I have had some sound deadening done to my 3 and have more to go.
2. What about listening when sitting in a parked car? I do this quite a bit.
3. Depends on what level of compression artifacts you are talking about. I've been slowly replacing many of my earliest CD purchases: BMG Music Club and Columbia House put out some VERY highly compressed crap and I bought a fair amount of it back in the 90's. Some tracks still exist in my collection and when I discover them, they are unlistenable.

As an example, when listening to a high quality live recording on a great audio system, it builds a highly detailed stereo "stage" where you can exactly pinpoint every single instrument and noises that the artists make. This is physically impossible in a car due to the above mentioned issues.

(Emphasis mine)
You are wrong on this.

First, you keep speaking in absolutes. You should never ever do that (he says with tongue implanted in cheek)

I DO experience these things in my car. Thus far I have intentionally not brought up my installer, Reus Audio, but I chose them after first doing the research. These guys have been doing this a LONG time and they have learned a lot over the years. They don't buy off-the-shelf: they have designed their own drivers and amplifiers. Next, I listened. I listened to a lot of different material from multiple genres. And once I did that, I was sold.

They do carefully set the sound stage. I hear every single detail and can close my eyes and feel the band right in front of me picking up on the subtle nuance available. The stereo separation is superb. I am not hearing separate drivers/frequency ranges: I am hearing the music as if the musicians are right there playing for me. I can see the strings vibrating, feel the valves opening and closing, and sit across from the vocalist as they sit on a stool, singing without a microphone and it's accompanying processing.

You have stated that stated that a car is a less than optimal listening environment. And I agree with you on that. But listening on headphones is also a less than optimal listening environment. As is a decent home system. Anything less than being in an acoustically pure room with the original musicians is a less than optimal listening environment.

Can a car be as good as a quality home system? Probably not. But by having a damned good system in your car is a step that greatly minimizes the differences and for which I gladly paid a premium for. I actively listen to music in my car FAR more than anywhere else, including sitting in my car for a while to continue listening when I am really enjoying it (such as happened with Stevie Wonder's Innervisions earlier today). So when you make statements like the one below, I say that is a bit ridiculous.

Frankly, the whole idea of audiophile audio formats in a car sounds a bit ridiculous to me.

 

[Thumpernator]

Hell, for a lot of us, the audio system is only as good as our hearing aids.

 

[Eno Deb]

A car is a less than ideal listening environment, but there are a lot of steps that one can take to lessen the negatives. I would not go so far as to say it is "terrible."

I stand by "terrible". Cramped, noisy, asymmetric seating position near reflective surfaces, all things that are bad for an audio setup.

What about listening when sitting in a parked car? I do this quite a bit.

I don't, and I bet very few people do.

Depends on what level of compression artifacts you are talking about. I've been slowly replacing many of my earliest CD purchases: BMG Music Club and Columbia House put out some VERY highly compressed crap and I bought a fair amount of it back in the 90's. Some tracks still exist in my collection and when I discover them, they are unlistenable.

CDs don't use lossy perceptual compression. Perhaps you mean dynamic range compression, but that's something entirely different.

You are wrong on this.

You can't practically place stereo speakers equidistant from the drivers ears in a car. You can compensate for perceived loudness asymmetry using balance adjustment, but you still get a phase error which destroys the acoustical "stage". Not to mention reflections from windows etc.

I DO experience these things in my car.

I'm sure that you experience and enjoy something, but it is very likely either a placebo effect or the result of simulated HRTFs or other digital trickery like "immersive audio".

You have stated that stated that a car is a less than optimal listening environment. And I agree with you on that. But listening on headphones is also a less than optimal listening environment.

Headphones deliver a different kind of experience. But they can perfectly reproduce the sound stage, and it is technically much easier to avoid distortions and other issues with headphones than with speakers (which is why they can deliver audio quality that rivals that of extremely expensive speaker systems for a fraction of the price), and they don't depend on an optimized listening environment.

 

[Kevy Baby]

I stand by "terrible".

Okay, thanks for your comments. Have a nice day.

 

[sduck]

You guys should keep going. It's almost as entertaining as the letters in the old High Fidelity magazines from the 70s!

 

[Kevy Baby]

You guys should keep going. It's almost as entertaining as the letters in the old High Fidelity magazines from the 70s!

Okay, thanks for your comments. Have a nice day.

 

[DelPhonic1]

.
CDs don't use lossy perceptual compression. Perhaps you mean dynamic range compression, but that's something entirely different.

Yes they do if the CD maker uses shitty mp3's as their source to press the CDs. Kind of like some of the shitty compression that Slack or bluetooth forces us into.

.

I'm sure that you experience and enjoy something, but it is very likely either a placebo effect or the result of simulated HRTFs or other digital trickery like "immersive audio".
.

One of the things I love about a great car audio system, is that I can compare producing styles, miking styles, verbs, phrasings, rhythmic interpretations, intonations, breaths, room. I can hear Pro Tools working like crazy to save a performance. Things like that. And if you can hear those things, which I and some do more or less, the rest of the basic listening experience of that Stevie wonder or whatever, is a much richer experience. Especially if, or more importantly, simply if you love music and love listening intensely to music in your car.

Dont be a hater.