SSC Ultimate Aero EV- 6 years without a charge.....???

[TEG]

If their goal was to get a lot of press due to outrageous claims, they have accomplished their mission.

As for their reputation...

 

[dpeilow]

They seem to me to be looking for Middle Eastern investors for their private offering.

The Ultimate Aero ICE is the carrot, the fantasy Ultimate Aero EV is the stick...

 

[dpeilow]

Shelby's amazing Aero EV: 0 to 60 in 2.5 seconds, 10 minute recharge - Engadget

Man juices in a boil? No shame, that's Shelby Super Cars' Aero EV in pursuit of the "world's fastest production electric car" title. SSC just came clean with the details behind its All-Electric Scalable Powertrain (AESP) producing 1,000 horsepower and 800 lb-ft of torque that rips the Aero EV through 0 to 60 in just 2.5 seconds at a 208mph top speed. Compare that to the Tesla Roadster's 0-60 in 3.9 seconds (or 3.7 for the 2009 sport model) and you'll understand all the hubbub, bub. Better yet, the 150-220 mile battery can be refilled in just 10 minutes (Tesla takes 3.5 hours) from a 220V service thanks to what SSC calls its "Charge on the Run" onboard charging system -- something that nearly eliminates (or at least minimizes) the need for a battery swapping infrastructure. The first full-scale, pre-production Ultimate Aero EV should be on the streets before June with production deliveries expected in the fourth quarter. Now we just need a price.

I hate to say it, but I'm starting to think that some form of mathematical/science/engineering education should be mandatory if you want to work in the technical media

 

[JRP3]

And yet there is that small, irrational part of me hoping they've discovered a way to pull extra power from another dimension :biggrin:

 

[Palpatine]

And yet there is that small, irrational part of me hoping they've discovered a way to pull extra power from another dimension :biggrin:

A zero point module (ZPM)?

 

[dpeilow]

As for their reputation...

It worries me that when this inevitably backfires, it will also harm the reputation of high performance EVs in general.


Also: http://www.slipperybrick.com/2009/01/shelby-super-cars-aero-ev-hits-208-mph/


It will be everywhere by tomorrow, no doubt.

 

[vfx]

Flux capacitor?

Mr Fusion?

Dilithium Crystals?

 

[dpeilow]

I'm wondering if Darryl could say something about this on his own blog. It hopefully will get picked up by some of the sites publishing this stuff. I'm pretty sure he's got some views on the claims some of these vapourware companies have been making. I'll start things off with how I think isn't helping:

1) While all the positive hype about SSC is around, we get people saying "eat that Tesla, they can charge in 10 minutes and you can't even manage 3 hours and they are faster".

2) When they don't deliver and the press goes bad, there will be the usual naysayers saying "told you so, all high performance EVs are hype," and link it back to Tesla.

Neither is good for winning over those people who are considering taking the plunge and getting a Roadster.

Say what you want about Tesla, fundamentally they have been honest with their specs and don't need competitors making claims like this.

 

[vfx]

I'm wondering if Darryl could say something about this on his own blog.

You did read the first comment in the LA Times article. ?

 

[dpeilow]

You did read the first comment in the LA Times article. ?

Ha - about the one article on it I didn't read yet.

Nice one Mr Siry and quick off the blocks too :smile:

 

[TEG]

Say what you want about Tesla, fundamentally they have been honest with their specs and don't need competitors making claims like this.

Mostly yes, although Tesla did slightly overstate some things.
We could nitpick original price, top speed & range numbers for instance.
Basically they promised their best projections, and ended up being off by a small margin.

Now, SSC, on the other hand seems to be much more 'creative' with what they are promising. We are forced to "wait and see", but there are many of us very dubious right now. And we can already see they keep adjusting the specs in each subsequent press release. There is a slight chance they have some major breakthrough that will "blow us all away", but it seems rather unlikely.

I can believe that the Ultimate Aero will have a much higher top speed than the Roadster. Also that they could have 10 minute recharge capability. Beyond that they insinuated all sorts of stuff that seems implausible.
(Drive for years without recharging? 10 minute full recharge off of 'standard 110' outlets?)

 

[doug]

There is a slight chance they have some major breakthrough that will "blow us all away", but it seems rather unlikely.

Yes! Perhaps a Breakthrough!




Btw, given the Allusion experience, the next Finkenbusch acting like a troll won't get as much leeway.


.

 

[TEG]

Most questionable/controversial claims (related to recharging) highlighted in bold for reference:

• 0-60mag.com Blog Archive Kilowatt Crazy
• SSC Announces Green Ultimate Aero EV Supercar - worldcarfans
• SSC (allegedly) to produce the world's fastest electric supercar - Autoblog
• Shelby SuperCars building worlds fastest electric car? - AutoblogGreen

Shrouded in mystery and secrecy, SSC has announced plans to unveil the next historical milestone – the Ultimate Aero EV (Electric Vehicle), the first 100% Green Supercar to achieve speeds never before seen. Engineering details are yet undisclosed while development continues at an uninterrupted pace. Despite months of speculation, SSC expects to roll out its first prototype in February 2009.

"I think we can do it faster, leaner and cleaner than any other manufacturer" says Jerod Shelby, SSC Founder.

Unlike other manufacturers’ models slated for delivery in the next decade, Shelby’s latest brainchild expects to be delivered as early as fourth quarter 2009. Other automakers have sacrificed aesthetics and performance in exchange for hybrid power plants, but the Ultimate Aero EV will deliver a pollution-free, engineering marvel with an exotic Supercar exterior. The drive train under development will not require a charge for six years and will power two 500 horsepower electric motors producing 1000 horsepower and providing supercar performance.

Having already broken one world record, SSC will soon break the engineering challenge of our time. Says Jay Leno of SSC's first accomplishment, "The coolest thing about this car is they said they were going to do something and then they did it."

While other manufacturers scramble to capture the Green hysteria of late, SSC will leap over the barrier with a fraction of the Big Three's budget.

Consistent with its company philosophy of being the benchmark, SSC plans next to break the record for the fastest electric car in the world.

Stay tuned...

• SSC to build new electric-powertrain that recharges in 10 minutes and provides 200 miles
• Ultimate Aero EV: SSC Plans To Build World's Fastest Electric Production Car [Ultimate Aero] - Jalopnik
• New Information On Shelby SuperCars' Green Technology - GM-Volt: Chevy Volt Forum
• TheEEStory.com: SSC's Nanotechnology Rechargeable Lithium Battery pack is rechargeable in only 10 minutes on a standard 110 outlet
• CAR NEWS: SSC Ultimate Aero EV Official Detail
• NewEnergyNews: MORE NEWS, 1-23 (WORLD?S FASTEST EV)
• Ultimate Aero EV: SSC Plans To Build World's Fastest Electric Production Car

Press Release:SSC Announces Green Technologies Revealing Revolutionary Battery and Electric Powertrain Technology
Shelby SuperCars (SSC) released the details today of the revolutionary electric vehicle technology to be unveiled in the second quarter of this year. SSC will reveal its innovative all-electric powertrain in the current Ultimate Aero, the Guinness Certified “Fastest Production Car in the World,” to create the Ultimate Aero EV and will reinforce the company as a benchmark in the auto industry. But unlike other auto manufacturers, SSC’s new technology will set a new standard in the electric car industry – one of 10 minute recharges, super horsepower and ranges of up to 200 miles per charge.
While other auto manufacturers focus on producing Green technology for specific cars, SSC’s focus is on producing Green technologies for a wide range of applications for an even wider range of vehicles. SSC’s electric powertrain package, named AESP (All-Electric Scalable Powertrain) is unique due to its scalable horsepower, light weight, compact size, quick recharge time and liquid cooling.
SSC’s Nanotechnology Rechargeable Lithium Battery pack is rechargeable in only 10 minutes on a standard 110 outlet and has a 150-200 mile range on a single charge. This means that in a typical 8 hour day, the car using this technology could go 200 miles, charge for 10 minutes (the time it typically takes to fill up a tank of gas), then drive 200 more miles, charge for 10 minutes and continue on. Some other EV technologies necessitate an overnight charge creating a class of “commuter electric cars” and are not practical alternatives to gas combustion automobiles.
The AESP’s main feature is its scalability. The all-electric SUV or delivery truck is now a reality in the not-so-distant future. The AESP is scalable from 200 horsepower for economy and midsize cars, to 500 horsepower for light trucks and SUVs, and up to 1200 horsepower for delivery trucks, heavy duty equipment, buses and military vehicles. The revolutionary design proves electric-powered vehicles not only match, but also provide more linear power (electric motors have 100% torque at 0 RPM) and overall performance than internal combustion vehicles.
• All-electric. No gasoline.
• Light weight. Just a fraction of the weight of a standard combustion engine (<200lbs.)
• Extended performance. Internal cooling systems are built into the motors.
• Compact size. 1/18 the space of a standard engine; significant increase in cargo room.
• Scalable horsepower. From 200 horsepower (one motor) to 1200 horsepower (two motors “piggy backed”).
• Quick recharges. Only 10 minutes on standard 110 outlet.
The current AESP was designed to meet the manufacturing and quality requirements of major automotive manufacturers, transportation operators and the military. SSC will wholesale the AESP to mass production car companies, governments, and to public, private, and niche businesses. Costs for mass-produced units are $5K-$6K per unit for 1000 to 10,000 units (with further reduction in unit cost for increased production.) SSC’s next milestone will be the pursuit of the “World’s Fastest Electric Car” with the Ultimate Aero EV later this year.
Source: SSC

I hope they realize that they can't do a press release then press the "undo" button...

 

[dpeilow]

I thought Gizmag had fallen for it at first, but: Ultimate Aero EV: 1000 horsepower electric supercar

While no battery details at all have been provided by Shelby we can take an educated guess at a capacity of 36 - 48 kw/hr to cover the 150-200 miles range they specify at an average for EVs 200wh/mi energy consumption. While there are several Li-ion battery chemistries on the market that can theoretically be charged to 80% of full capacity in 10 mins, the current required doing so is well beyond any wall socket. In fact we have no information on any actual demonstration of an EV sized battery pack being charged in this theoretically possible 10 minutes. To fully charge a 36kw/hr battery in 10 mins from a 220v supply as Shelby claim requires a supply capable of 978 Amps, so we kind of wonder if the guys at Shelby have ever heard of Ohm's law.

While virtually all EV manufactures are going with single speed reduction gears instead of power sapping multi-speed gearboxes, The Ultimate Aero EV will have it’s two 500 Hp liquid cooled electric motors bolted to a 3-speed automatic transmission which can electronically change gears in 0.24 seconds. Automatic transmissions and torque converters are far less energy inefficient than manual gearboxes but the real down side is that an automatic transmission will make regenerative braking absolutely impossible, which in a car like the Tesla can as much as double the range of in-city driving.

 

[JRP3]

Automatic transmissions and torque converters are far less energy inefficient than manual gearboxes but the real down side is that an automatic transmission will make regenerative braking absolutely impossible, which in a car like the Tesla can as much as double the range of in-city driving.

I disagree with both those points. Automatics less inefficient than manual? They must mean less efficient. Also I don't see any reason why an auto box cant do regen. There are ways to run autos without torque converters, and I'd think a lockup torque converter would still allow regen.

I see they fixed the efficiency thing.

 

[vfx]

Fully-electric, 95mph Sports Utility charges in 10 minutes

 

[TEG]

Yes, and the Phoenix seems stuck in terminal limbo.
And their 10 minute recharge was really just a "demo" so far.
Plus they seemed to have a business model based on selling CA ZEV credits and supporting 10 minute recharge _capability_ would give them a better ratio due to the way the regulations are worded...

But, in the real world, are we near to having any real public locations to do 10 minute recharges? I don't think they should advertise the feature until there is already some infrastructure available to support it.

These pipe dream press releases hurt the EV market. When another vendor hypes it up but then it isn't available people stop trusting what they read.

 

[TEG]

By the way, check out this old topic:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/technical/728-look-ev-journalist-does-math-least-little-research.html

and this:
http://www.pluginamerica.org/images/InsideGreentech_30may07.pdf

(Does SSC plan to use Altairnano batteries?)

IEEE Spectrum: Electric-Car Maker Touts 10-Minute Fill-up

At issue are the awesome power levels required. To charge a 35-kWh battery in 10 minutes requires 250 kilowatts of power—five times as much as the average office building consumes at its peak. That rules out rapid charging at home. Even rapid-charge “filling stations” stretch the imagination, as you’d need a megawatt power feed—generally available only at electrical substations—to simultaneously operate four power pumps. That is a stretch too far for even some staunch EV proponents. “I look at 10-minute charging as a gimmick because of the power requirements,” says Andrew Burke, an EV engineering pioneer at the University of California, Davis.
Altair CEO Alan Gotcher acknowledges these difficulties, saying installation of equipment to rapidly charge and discharge modules has slowed Altair’s own R&D program. “It’s just a lot of power to manage,” says Gotcher.

 

[vfx]

I don't think they should advertise the feature until there is already some infrastructure available to support it.

You are hitting at the core of all marketing and advertising. With all the layoffs going on, that would be another industry that would have to let go of more than half of it's workforce. :wink:

 

[Palpatine]

Give Tesla some credit on recharge speed. They have recently put out the info on the maximum recharging speed the battery can handle.

440 volts and 160 amps. That would results in a 45 minute recharge of a Tesla Roadster.

Nobody will do that in their home and it really is not even needed there.
But it makes perfect sense in some strategic locations. That is the perfect amount of time for a lunch and restroom break.

I appreciate that Tesla Motors has been realistic about this info. It provides some credibility. These other companies are trying to grab attention with these fantasy claims that require 1,000 amp recharges in 10 minutes.