Stalls blocked by Tesla Owner

[aesculus]

It appears that there are big differences in getting the car plugged in with the car unlocked based on year/model.

I just tried my early 2016 Model X again. Car was locked (mirrors folded in). I pressed the door handle and the car did not respond at all. Completely shut down. Then I tried the UMC button multiple times all around the charge port door and all over around the rear corner of the car. Nothing. Port would not open.

BTW it is very easy to get the charge port door open. Just press on the very rear and it will swing open enough for you to be able to pry it the rest of the way open with your fingers. But when I did that I still could not insert the charger cable because the ring light was off and there is bar prohibiting the plug from going into the socket. So in my car there is no way to insert the charger cable regardless if the door is open or not unless the car is unlocked.

Cleary from the reports above other cars/models behave differently.

 

[mswlogo]

I just went to my garage, unplugged my car, back inside to drop the key out of range and waited until the car locked. I went back out and was able to plug in even with the car locked. I can’t unplug, but could plug in my umc, why won’t it work with supercharger?

Once the car is asleep I think it won't open the door. I wonder if you could trigger waking the car

 

[mswlogo]

What I don't understand, the Tesla GPS is pretty accurate. I'm sure Tesla could easily know if a car is idle on a SuC spot without the charger plugged in.

They are not quite accurate enough for that. You could easily have legit parking spots extremely close to the stalls.

 

[mvotb]

My April 2016 plugs in, locked, no problem. Hit the button, door opens, white light. I say plug them in, and since the guy is an Ahole on top of it, report the registration and the rental business to DMV, See if the owner will tow them away if you provide a sign that says, cars not plugged in will be towed.

 

[Bill Price]

They are not quite accurate enough for that. You could easily have legit parking spots extremely close to the stalls.

There are many, many legitimate parking spots less than 50 feet away from the stalls.

 

[mswlogo]

There are many, many legitimate parking spots less than 50 feet away from the stalls.

Your point?

There are sometimes legit parking spots even closer. back to back with the stalls or one parking space over from a stall.

My point was Tesla can’t rely on GPS of the car to tell them an unplugged Tesla is taking up a stall. Which is what was suggested and explained why it won’t work.

Got it!

 

[whitex]

I can confirm that the charge port on my 2014 P85D stays locked as long as the car is locked. Just went out and tapped the port for about two minutes, and it wouldn't open. Then connected via the app, didn't open. Then vented the roof, closed the roof, opened the trunk, closed the trunk and the port would not open at any of those intervals.

Having the port unlock simply because you wake the car up sounds like a bug (even if you prefer it to act that way).

You cannot open the port by tapping it when car is locked. It has to be opened using UMC, HPWC, or supercharger handles (by pressing the button on the handle, which also wakes the car).

 

[whitex]

BTW I am thinking really devious thoughts - some sort of contraption to force battery overload, resulting in your car exploding

First, it's next to impossible to make the battery explode. Catch on fire if you were to damage it, sure, but exploding would be really had. Second, if you're trying to do evil things, there are many, many ways - hacking the charge port is nowhere nearest your biggest bang for effort. Did you know you pop the hood without a key? You can access plenty of parts and electronics under there. Or low tech, throw a brick at the car, will definitely do some damage and get you into the car, where you can access plenty of things. Bottom line, your car is not a safe, it's not a high security storage, it can be breached with fairly minimal effort. Heck, you can steal the whole car in 60 seconds by towing it away.

Bottom line, don't worry about access to the charge port. Much less of an attack surface than an ICE car gas cap (which in some models are not lockable).

 

[whitex]

Your point?

There are sometimes legit parking spots even closer. back to back with the stalls or one parking space over from a stall.

My point was Tesla can’t rely on GPS of the car to tell them an unplugged Tesla is taking up a stall. Which is what was suggested and explained why it won’t work.

Got it!

If they know the car was supercharging, and the it gets unplugged but hasn't moved more than 6 feet, you could safely assume they are squatting in the spot.

 

[whitex]

It appears that there are big differences in getting the car plugged in with the car unlocked based on year/model.

I just tried my early 2016 Model X again. Car was locked (mirrors folded in). I pressed the door handle and the car did not respond at all. Completely shut down. Then I tried the UMC button multiple times all around the charge port door and all over around the rear corner of the car. Nothing. Port would not open.

BTW it is very easy to get the charge port door open. Just press on the very rear and it will swing open enough for you to be able to pry it the rest of the way open with your fingers. But when I did that I still could not insert the charger cable because the ring light was off and there is bar prohibiting the plug from going into the socket. So in my car there is no way to insert the charger cable regardless if the door is open or not unless the car is unlocked.

Cleary from the reports above other cars/models behave differently.

Does it open using the same UMC when the car is unlocked? It sounds like either you have a unicorn, or maybe there is something wrong with your car or UMC (causing bad rf reception of UMC open signal).

 

[mswlogo]

If they know the car was supercharging, and the it gets unplugged but hasn't moved more than 6 feet, you could safely assume they are squatting in the spot.

But that isn’t GPS, now is it.

Good idea. Might as well make it that it hasn’t moved at all (as in put in drive since super charging).

All they have to is keep idle charges going until you put it in drive.

 

[whitex]

But that isn’t GPS, now is it.

Good idea. Might as well make it that it hasn’t moved at all (as in put in drive since super charging).

All they have to is keep idle charges going until you put it in drive.

Whether the car moved can be derived from GPS. GPS relative position has a much smaller error margin than absolute position.

Of course a sensible solution would use a combination of GPS, wheel sensors, etc. so even if your car is towed away from the supercharger, you're not paying idle charges since GPS shows you miles away from it.

 

[brkaus]

Camera looking at the supercharger pedestal?

 

[Big Earl]

Does it open using the same UMC when the car is unlocked? It sounds like either you have a unicorn, or maybe there is something wrong with your car or UMC (causing bad rf reception of UMC open signal).

Some cars do it and some don’t. There have been many sound-off threads (like what’s been going on here) and mixed results have been established. It seems to work more on Model S than on Model X. Not enough Model 3 owners have shared, but it does not work on mine.

 

[whitex]

Camera looking at the supercharger pedestal?

Not a software only solution (require SC hardware retrofit) but an AP2 or AP3 computer should be easily trained to recognize cars in the spot and zoom in on VIN, license plates, collect WiFi MAC address, are color, make, model, etc. Collecting all these things prevents people from obscuring one or two, since you can still say "we know your car was there because of WiFi, you were the only red 2016 Model X at the supercharger, so even though you obscured your VIN and license plates, we still know it's you. Oh, and here is the picture of you leaving the car."

 

[mswlogo]

Whether the car moved can be derived from GPS. GPS relative position has a much smaller error margin than absolute position.

Of course a sensible solution would use a combination of GPS, wheel sensors, etc. so even if your car is towed away from the supercharger, you're not paying idle charges since GPS shows you miles away from it.

GPS can easily bounce 10 meters standing still. It's usually good, but you can't start charging $$$ based on a GPS position.

Regardless, this will never happen.

 

[whitex]

GPS can easily bounce 10 meters standing still. It's usually good, but you can't start charging $$$ based on a GPS position.

Regardless, this will never happen.

I said stop charging based on GPS, not start charging.

Also, you can filter out 10m bounces knowing the car cannot travel 10m in a millisecond for example.

 

[mswlogo]

I said stop charging based on GPS, not start charging.

Charging, as in IDLE fee charges? Someone could legitimately move the car 10ft from the "last" stall to a parking space adjacent to the last stall. I've also seen legitimate parking on the "back side" of the stalls. Tesla would have to not charge idle fees for that tiny move. But you just can't rely on GPS for that small a move reliably.

Back to the original problem. What is the incentive for these fleet renters to leave them in front of the stall unplugged in the first place. They are only shooting themselves in the foot by raising awareness.

Nobody would probably know this is even happening if they didn't leave the car there. Maybe they are less likely to get towed if "security" sees a Tesla in front of super charger. Regardless if it's plugged in or not.

 

[LoL Rick]

Is this it?
Rent a Tesla to drive for Uber/Lyft
EVFleet

 

[f205v]

My point was Tesla can’t rely on GPS of the car to tell them an unplugged Tesla is taking up a stall. Which is what was suggested and explained why it won’t work.

If I'm not mistaken, the GPS chip used by Tesla is also capable of Galileo Positioning, which is accurate in the region of 10cm (4in).
This can easily discriminate between a charging stall and an adjacent standard parking place.