Standard 110v (?) Outlet to 240V outlet

[PaceyWhitter]

You will probably want a NEMA 14-50 receptacle, because the car comes with everything you need to plug into that. This will require a 50 amp circuit. (No more, no less.) The car will only draw 40 amps over this, because that's what's allowed for a continuous load on a 50 amp circuit.

You can print this out and give it to your electrician:

http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/downloads/universalmobileconnector_nema_14-50.pdf

Although, if your electrician doesn't know what a NEMA 14-50 outlet is, maybe you need a new electrician.

 

[Cashoverass]

I'm working through the property manager who is talking to the electrician so it's kinda like the blind leading the blind. But this document that mark sent is perfect! I didn't see this on the "mytesla" page with the other downloaded docs.

Thanks!

 

[Cosmacelf]

I got a quote for 350 but they said it'd be cheaper if the amperage is less than 40. Is that weird? Is it normal that the price would change based on amperage?

Yes, higher amperage means heavy gauge wires which is more expensive.

 

[jerry33]

Although, if your electrician doesn't know what a NEMA 14-50 outlet is, maybe you need a new electrician.

Most electricians that aren't involved in home construction/renovation mainly replace panels and add lighting. They seldom get involved in running 240V wiring. I called several and none really knew what a NEMA 14-50 was offhand.

 

[FlasherZ]

Most electricians that aren't involved in home construction/renovation mainly replace panels and add lighting. They seldom get involved in running 240V wiring. I called several and none really knew what a NEMA 14-50 was offhand.

They know a 14-50 as a "4-wire range outlet", a 14-30 as a "4-wire dryer outlet", a 10-50 as a "3-wire range outlet", and 10-30 as a "3-wire dryer outlet".

 

[brianman]

"{14, 10}-" = "{4, 3} wire"
"{50, 30}" = {50A, 30A} rated = {"range", "dryer"}

@FlasherZ - Correct translation? What's the electrician terminology for "6-"?

 

[bollar]

"{14, 10}-" = "{4, 3} wire"
"{50, 30}" = {50A, 30A} rated = {"range", "dryer"}

@FlasherZ - Correct translation? What's the electrician terminology for "6-"?

Welder?

File:NEMA simplified pins.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[FlasherZ]

Welder?

Yup. "Welder outlet" is a 6-50. "220 air conditioner outlet" is a 6-20.

6-30's aren't common enough. They'd have to do some research for those.

Note that this is for general-purpose electricians; those who work in more professional/industrial settings typically know the descriptions of these a bit better based on amperage and description of load. 4-wire 240V (or "240V/120V") is 14 / L14 (twist-lock); 3-wire 240V is 6 / L6 (twist-lock); 120V is 5 / L5 (twist-lock); etc... they still may not know the receptacle numbering, especially if the supply house talks in the same language ("need a 50A 4-wire receptacle").

 

[brianman]

Thanks.

 

[Cosmacelf]

FlasherZ, what's the deal with people talking about 110V outlets and 220V outlets. Isn't the nominal voltage 120V and 240V?

 

[brianman]

Here's what some random person on the web has to say:

You'll often hear voltages in your home referred to as 110V, 115V, or 120V. This can be confusing but the bottom line is they are referring to the exact same thing. 120V is the AC voltage on a single hot wire in your home with respect to neutral (or ground). With resistance in the wiring in your house, this 120V will likely have dropped to 115V by the time it gets to the appliance you are powering. At the end of a long extension cord you could even drop to 110V. This is why you'll see the different terms used. In fact many appliances or devices will be rated to 110V or 115V which basically tells you they are tested to operate down to a lower voltage. This gives you assurance that at the end of a long circuit or extension cord it will still operate fine.

In the United States, utility companies are required to provide a split-phase 240V feed to your house. This consists of two legs of 120VAC that are 180 degrees out of phase with one another. The picture below depicts one 120V leg in red and another in yellow. The 0V line in the middle is the voltage of your neutral line. AC power oscillates at 60 cycles per second (60 Hz) in the U.S. Other parts of the world use a 50Hz standard. The AC voltage oscillates from +120V to -120V. With the two legs feeding your house being out of phase, can you pick up 240V AC by using both legs rather than one leg and neutral. When you use both legs to feed a circuit, like a range or water heater, you end up with twice the voltage (a line that oscillates from +240V to -240V). The neutral wire is not utilized in a 240V circuit as the current is fed by one leg and returned on the other leg.

Voltage Differences: 110V, 120V, 220V, 240V

 

[Dave EV]

Here's what some random person on the web has to say:

With resistance in the wiring in your house, this 120V will likely have dropped to 115V by the time it gets to the appliance you are powering. At the end of a long extension cord you could even drop to 110V. This is why you'll see the different terms used.

Unless you are measuring voltage at the end of the wire/cord under load, you should still see close to 120V. Normally you should see no more than +-5% at your service entrance under no load or 114V / 228V. Under marginal conditions or under load, this might drop down to 110V / 220V. If you have marginal conditions at your service entrance, you should not expect to see less than 106V / 212V at your load.

Acceptable Voltage Ranges - SPGS - Surge Protective Devices Electrical Analysis

tl;dr; You should always refer to the circuits as 120/240V and expect to see that voltage +- 5% under no load and at least 110/220V under load under most conditions.

 

[FlasherZ]

FlasherZ, what's the deal with people talking about 110V outlets and 220V outlets. Isn't the nominal voltage 120V and 240V?

Today's standard is pretty clear-cut... 240V, 60 Hz at the service entrance, and we have portable instrumentation that confirms it to very strict tolerances.

I haven't read a definitive narrative that explained any research behind the grid, but I have seen plenty of conjecture. Some say it's because certain power operators found that 110V still allowed light bulbs to operate properly, but burned out less than higher voltages. Households didn't have electronics loads - they merely had lights, motors, and heaters, all of which easily handled voltage differences well. Some systems used 220V, some systems 230V, and some systems 240V.

(Voltage harmonization in Europe actually specified a 230V standard, to bridge older 220V and 240V systems into the same tolerance bands...)

And, the most famous line of all - if you've seen Mr. Mom: "220, 221, whatever it takes."

- - - Updated - - -

Here's what some random person on the web has to say:

I love random people on the web.

Some older systems did (and if your transformer has lasted for 50 years or so, still may have!) 220V RMS nominal voltage at the service entrance. It's not due to voltage drop / resistance, as explained there, but rather that was the voltage chosen by the local provider.

 

[mknox]

Most electricians that aren't involved in home construction/renovation mainly replace panels and add lighting. They seldom get involved in running 240V wiring. I called several and none really knew what a NEMA 14-50 was offhand.

As an electric utility professional, I find that observation, if true, to be shocking (pun very much intended). Residential electric systems are 120/240 volts and any electrician worth his/her salt would have to fully understand residential wiring concepts including 240 volt circuits for stoves, dryers, water heaters and such. A NEMA 14-50 is very commonly used in kitchens for electric ranges... how could an "electrician" not know this?

 

[dsm363]

As an electric utility professional, I find that observation, if true, to be shocking (pun very much intended). Residential electric systems are 120/240 volts and any electrician worth his/her salt would have to fully understand residential wiring concepts including 240 volt circuits for stoves, dryers, water heaters and such. A NEMA 14-50 is very commonly used in kitchens for electric ranges... how could an "electrician" not know this?

I agree they absolutely should know what it is (it's their job) but you won't find hardly any 14-50s installed in homes in the US. You will find 14-30s though (dryer outlets) in basically every house.

 

[FlasherZ]

As an electric utility professional, I find that observation, if true, to be shocking (pun very much intended). Residential electric systems are 120/240 volts and any electrician worth his/her salt would have to fully understand residential wiring concepts including 240 volt circuits for stoves, dryers, water heaters and such. A NEMA 14-50 is very commonly used in kitchens for electric ranges... how could an "electrician" not know this?

I've seen it before -- they don't know the NEMA designations. Tell them a "240V range outlet" and they know exactly what you speak of.

 

[tomas]

This thread just blows my mind.

1) the originator decides to post on forum vs. reading the requirements on the Tesla site and accepting the electrician visit that Tesla refers to awaiting owners.
2) a bunch of people who should know better weigh in on various technical aspects of home wiring.
3) then, the arguments over technical details start to pile up. 4 pages of it. Just to prove who is the least amateur electrician.

Cashoverass... there's one simple and correct answer to someone who clearly is not an electrician: HIRE ONE. Who would spend 70k or more on a car, and then try to DIY on wiring that - if done incorrectly - could damage house and car.

 

[FlasherZ]

This thread just blows my mind.

The OP mentioned he's a pretty handy DIY'er normally but that electricity concerns him. Good! It should!

I do support calling an electrician whenever you don't feel comfortable, and I will happily recommend that.

However, the reason I put many of the technical details into these threads is simple: search engines. People will do searches when they insist upon doing this themselves, regardless of their knowledge level. I've seen so many unsafe installations, and each additional one we present is a good thing. I'm sure there are people tired of seeing me mention the caveats associated with insurance coverage and code violations, but I want everyone well-informed as to how dangerous it can be.

You may think this is a joke -- but it is not: I was asked by someone whether he could just cut off the two ends of a garden-variety extension cord and attach a 50-amp plug and receptacle to it so he could charge in the driveway.

Electricity gets people who don't know better killed. Maybe I'm interfering with Darwin, but I'd prefer to see people live.

 

[tomas]

Actually, not only do I support calling an electrician whenever you don't feel comfortable with DIY, but also ** and especially ** if you DO feel comfortable with DIY. More DIY errors stem from overconfidence than underconfidence. Electricity and plumbing... nada! In either case, you don't see you screwed up until the smoke alarm goes off or the sump pump suddenly starts up.

Flasher, I'm split between your benevolence and Darwin's malevolence... hmm, let me see. Oh, screw it! Darwin!

The OP mentioned he's a pretty handy DIY'er normally but that electricity concerns him. Good! It should!

I do support calling an electrician whenever you don't feel comfortable, and I will happily recommend that.

However, the reason I put many of the technical details into these threads is simple: search engines. People will do searches when they insist upon doing this themselves, regardless of their knowledge level. I've seen so many unsafe installations, and each additional one we present is a good thing. I'm sure there are people tired of seeing me mention the caveats associated with insurance coverage and code violations, but I want everyone well-informed as to how dangerous it can be.

You may think this is a joke -- but it is not: I was asked by someone whether he could just cut off the two ends of a garden-variety extension cord and attach a 50-amp plug and receptacle to it so he could charge in the driveway.

Electricity gets people who don't know better killed. Maybe I'm interfering with Darwin, but I'd prefer to see people live.

 

[qwk]

Actually, not only do I support calling an electrician whenever you don't feel comfortable with DIY, but also ** and especially ** if you DO feel comfortable with DIY. More DIY errors stem from overconfidence than underconfidence. Electricity and plumbing... nada! In either case, you don't see you screwed up until the smoke alarm goes off or the sump pump suddenly starts up.

Flasher, I'm split between your benevolence and Darwin's malevolence... hmm, let me see. Oh, screw it! Darwin!

The problem with that kind of thinking, is that there are quite a few professionals that not only cut corners, but simply don't know better or care. The old adage "if you want it done right, do it yourself" is still very true.