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Standard Range AWD?

Discussion in 'Model 3: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by ShearModXY, Jan 29, 2019.

  1. ShearModXY

    ShearModXY Member

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    If there is a thread if this topic already in existence, please reply with a link but...

    So my wife and I have a reservation down and we want the SR Battery, black paint, 18 Aero Wheels and Premium Interior M3.

    Do most of you agree or has Elon mentioned that eventually a SR battery car could still be optioned with AWD?

    I want a SR car with just the Premium Interior as an option to keep the price low to just get me in the car. Then later (yes, I know it's more expensive after the sale), save up for like maybe a combination Birthday/Christmas Present and get AP in an OTA Update purchase, but living in PA, I would like to consider AWD along with the premium interior as options.

    Again, do we know or believe once production has been really humming that most options would be able to be swapped even onto SR cars?
    I really hope so, I'd at least like to consider AWD with where we live but cannot live without premium interior but may want to save to buy both.

    Thanks y'all.

    Mark
     
    • Like x 1
  2. Sophias_dad

    Sophias_dad Member

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    #2 Sophias_dad, Jan 29, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
    I have a LR AWD. I'd be hard-pressed to go to a MR AWD, and wouldn't even consider a SR AWD, or maybe even an SR RWD... The range anxiety would be too much.

    If you lived somewhere warm or had a reliably short commute, MAYBE I'd consider a shorter range. The 310 on an AWD is fantasyland even when new. My 90% level is currently around 269 rated, and due to the winter, I'd be lucky to get 175 miles out of that. Yes, I seldom drive 175 miles a day, like never. But how about 120, which is where the SR is likely to be. I still don't drive 120 very often, but if I get stuck in a traffic jam, I don't want to worry about it. Also, you aren't really supposed to be drawing it all the way to 0 miles, so leave some buffer, and you are at 100 miles of usable range in winter.

    I'd be really surprised if they ever make a SR AWD... the market isn't likely to be there, and the SR batteries probably won't be able to supply enough power for two motors. (I am not an expert on this, but read that the LR RWD had less motor than the batteries could drive, and the LR AWD eliminated that)


    And as if by magic, a thread appears with cold range real world experience....

    Range during -16 weather
     
  3. Probllama

    Probllama Member

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  4. Dre78

    Dre78 Supporting Member

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    Tesla has said "yes" via Tweet. More details/editorial commentary on teslarati.

    Good luck!

    FYI: not sure how much you're into upgraded mats (I hear they're rebadged WeatherTech!), tint, and PPF, but if you are, don't forget those costs in your purchase! I did...
     
  5. NeverFollow

    NeverFollow Active Member

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    #5 NeverFollow, Jan 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
    How many miles do you drive daily, and will you be able to charge at home or will you have to use public chargers?
    If you cannot charge at home, and unless you live close to a supercharger, you can only use 7kWh L2 superchargers which is slow.
    I understand your concern about keeping the price low, but this can be a factor when deciding about battery size.

    I looked at all the configurations, but since I plan to keep my car as long as possible,
    getting a larger battery was worthwhile, and considering the weight of the car,
    having a dual motor will certainly release some of the stress from a rear motor
    and improve the overall reliability.
     
  6. DavidP

    DavidP Member

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    Me too, my ideal configuration is SR+AWD but with standard interior.

    We may be limited concerning the options choice at production start. Like mandatory premium interior.
     
  7. ShearModXY

    ShearModXY Member

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    Excellent Dre87! Thanks for the link. Obviously I know what was said on Twitter *may* not actually happen but it'd be nice to at least have the AWD option.

    Now, for those of you trying to convince me about buying a larger battery... thanks but remember, the whole point of Elon's 'Master Plan' is to get BEVs into the most people's hands for sustainability (let's not get into a debate on the details of the Master Plan), so there are WAY more people that have been waiting for the SR car since day one that reservations were opened back in 2016... so I believe Elon that the SR car WILL be made. Just like now, it may be this year, it might not, maybe 4th Quarter of 2019, or still later, who knows, but I do believe it will be made. And I am absolutely ok with it being sold with the Premium interior as a 'required option', thus making the SR car, actually a $40,000 purchase in the SR, 18 inch wheels, black paint and no AP or other upgrades...

    I want a Tesla, I believe in the technology and love that the cars are speedy and fun and functional and reliable... but I cannot afford and do not want an upper $40s to mid $50s car (neither do the vast majority of folks on the current reservation list). I am absolutely ok, with a SR car with a "required" Premium Interior, that is a stretch I am willing to wait to save for.

    And finally to calm the folks about charging. I WILL have a NEMA 14-50 receptacle installed and although I am approaching a year since I put down the $1,000 reservation, I already have the receptacle and have have been in touch with a couple local electricians who will put the designated charging line in for me... I will be charging at home each evening and I have a 30.1 mile, one-way commute, 60.2 Miles round trip commute to work each day, so unless you live right across the street from a Ruby Tuesday with some Superchargers, one is nuts to buy an EV and NOT charge at home... so I'm covered there. Also, in PA we are paying UNDER 6 CENTS per kWH FOR POWER, so to say I'll be saving my family some mad money by driving an EV, is an understatement.

    Again, Dre78 thanks for the link, that's just what I was looking for. And although most of the other comments were not surprisingly off-topic, thanks for chiming in!

    Mark
     
  8. ShearModXY

    ShearModXY Member

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    Yeah, I am not really set on having the AWD, I mean right now for the last 19 years I have successfully owned and piloted RWD cars, such as Crown Victorias, Grand Marquis and a 2012 Mustang... ALL of which have been equipped with Ford's Traction-Lok Limited Slip Differential (the only reason most RWD cars get a back wrap in bad weather is because the VAST MAJORITY of RWD cars DO NOT come equipped with LSDs... thus making them "One-Tire-Fryers"), meaning only one wheel is driving the car, but with two wheels doing the pushing, I have NEVER been left stuck in *my* RWD cars, even with PA's snowy, icy weather...

    So only having a SR, RWD M3 will NOT inhibit me from buying one, should they decide to NOT offer AWD on the SR car, I just wanted to clarify that Tesla/Elon did mention that the SR car, irregardless of the standard or premium interior, will or may have AWD as an option.

    And Dre78, answered that question! Love this community!
     
  9. ShearModXY

    ShearModXY Member

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    Hey y'all, I also found the Standard Range M3 mentioned in an article from Futurecar.com on the same date as Teslarati posted their story on the topic as well.
    Base Trim of Tesla Model 3 Will Get a Dual Motor AWD Option - FutureCar.com

    I know they all use the same info from the main sources anyway but here's a second mention of the SR car with AWD as an option.
    Just wanted to share.
    Enjoy!
     
  10. NeverFollow

    NeverFollow Active Member

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    #10 NeverFollow, Jan 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
    Now with Tesla reduced EV Tax incentive, and the next wave of $35k-40k cars with about 65kWh batteries,
    like the Kia Niro EV and Hyundai Kona Electric, I assume that the $35k Model 3 will become crucial for Tesla..

    Hyundai Kona EV Pricing = $36,450 to $44,650 — Best CUV Available?
     
    • Like x 1
  11. ShearModXY

    ShearModXY Member

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    Definitely crucial for sure!

    And as for the Federal Tax Credit, that is a big deal and it was a big deal and even with divided government now, I wish they could agree to extend the tax credit HOWEVER, every car I ever purchased was bought without the help of any tax incentive, so either way, I am saving to own a Model 3.
     
  12. Sophias_dad

    Sophias_dad Member

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    Here in MA, its now hovering around 25 cents per kwh. Thanks for that deregulation and "competition", state government!
     
  13. Zorak03

    Zorak03 Member

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    Does AWD reduce range?
     
  14. Sophias_dad

    Sophias_dad Member

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    Yes, the added weight and rolling resistance of the second motor does reduce range somewhat.
     
  15. ShearModXY

    ShearModXY Member

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    #15 ShearModXY, Jan 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
    Yeah, 5 plus years ago power here was 13 cents kWh, three and a half years ago since I became an energy consultant, it has steadily fallen from 9-10 cents per kWh and now, in the first week of January the main provider set its prices just above 7 cent kWh... and my company is now UNDER 7 cents, .0695 per kWh!

    This won't make some too happy but undoubtedly MA has taxed the heck out of both you the customer and the power company itself to supply funds for some "green" project which then gets flushed down the bureaucracy toilet. So there is a price to pay for things being "green" and if you're a believer in the Man-made Global Warming Hoax, then you deserve to pay these higher prices.

    Meanwhile in places like PA, that routinely get made fun of as being "hickish" and "redneck" and "not sophisticated", we are the ones reaping the benefits from the Marcellus Shale Gas Revolution and we also have some of the most abundant and productive coal mines in the world, and we use it to make clean and cheap power for our residents. Then our won't-name-the-parties-who-control-these-Cities jack taxes up on utilities, which cancels out the benefits of deregulation and competition and then they blame that system and not the criminal taxing bodies known as government (but that's part of the plan), all to dupe the left-leaning residents in those areas to back more price-hiking regs as the cure-all to fix the system They are breaking... it's a cycle and they count on the sheeple to fall for it, and they do.

    Meanwhile, in The Sticks... A new natural gas plant just came online last year, and a we also have a Clean Coal Powerplant 12 miles from my house (and an "evil" Nuclear Plant 25 miles away) and that company about 10 years ago invested 600-700 billion dollars to put up the coal scrubber stacks and all the associated technologies to make it a certified Clean Coal Power Plant and it has been running 97% cleaner than it used to. You could see the yellowy sulfurous smoke floating across the valley for decades as a kid but now, after that tech was installed, the "smoke" is powdery white and barely gets away from the plant before disappearing. So it has cleaned up my personal air and environment tremendously and yet still usues Americas Most Abundant Fossil Fuel to make cheap power.
    And talk about recycling, they then have a conveyor belt set up which takes ALL the ash from the burned coal, ships it across the street and then the factory which is filled with workers who make great livings to provide for their familes, they make the flyash into dry wall for building houses that we can purchase from any of our local hardware or builder-supply stores!!!! Wow!

    And America is now the number one Natural Gas Producer in the world (along with oil too) and it's because of these "evil" resources that I'm paying under 7 cents per kWh for power and I expect the price to fall even more as Natural Gas continues to flood the market from wells 30 miles north of my house!

    So in PA where a certain party does not have a strangle hold on government, "deregulation" has worked flawlessly (and it was passed by our Republican State House and Senate and was signed into law by Ed Rendell, a Democrat) and right now, if I log on to www.papowerswitch.com I can choose between 146 power providers, 131 are fixed rates, 13 variable rates, 2 are "unlimited," and there are 40 renewable source providers but of course those are all wildly more expensive than the .0695 per kWh I pay.

    So for PA, that gets ridiculed as not being "sophisticated enough" as compared to the "wise and all knowing" and "willing-to-pay-more-to-save-the-planet-but-then-bitch-about-high-prices-but-then-blames-competition-and-deregulation-but-not-bloated-inefficient-government" left-leaning states, I'd say we've figured out the basic principles of supply and demand and deregulation way better than some others... but then again, we all don't call MA, "Taxachusetts" for nothing.

    I can't wait to charge my Model 3 using my .0695 cent per kWh power and look forward to even cheaper charging as these "evil" fossil fuels lower the burden on my family.
    "Man-made Global Warming - The Vanity of Humanity."
     
  16. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    Bear in mind that Kona is only being sold in California, and in limited numbers. It's a compliance car, not a real market-wide competitor for the Model 3.

    Not sure if they've said anything official but it wouldn't shock me if the Kia was the same thing- this article suggests it'll also be very limited in actual US sales/availability-
    Kia Niro EV Gets Official EPA Range Rating + U.S. On-Sale Date



    As to the OPs question- the math on having waited looks pretty bad these days especially if you want the PUP anyway....

    If you could live with RWD, which it sounds like you could, the MR RWD car was actually cheaper after tax credit (36.5k) for the car with PUP and longer range than SR than you'd pay for a RWD SR car with PUP in 6 months (or more) when they're actually for sale (40k, or maybe 38,125 if you take delivery before Dec 31 2019).

    If you need AWD, you'd have been looking at 45.5k after tax rebate for AWD LR up to December 31 2018 delivery... the SR AWD, assuming a 5k upcharge for AWD like on the LR cars, would be only $2375 less for almost 1/3rd less range (and continuing to buy gas for almost an entire year while waiting) if you take delivery by Dec 31, 2019 (or only $500 less if after Dec 31).


    Even right now the MR car is 38,250 after the current tax credit with PUP... versus the $38,125 an SR RWD with PUP would be between July 1 and Dec 31 so waiting still doesn't make sense for someone ok with RWD and wanting PUP.
     
    • Like x 2
  17. HelixSpiral

    HelixSpiral Member

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    It's hard to tell on the internet sometimes. But this post is a joke, right?
     
  18. ShearModXY

    ShearModXY Member

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    Love the breakdown and I completely get the math and how much different trim levels make sense when coupled with the tax credit however, if we can't make the monthly payments work at this point, it doesn't matter how much sense one option makes over another. That's why I am saving up but may not have enough by the time the tax credit ends completely. But not getting the tax credit won't prevent me from buying a Model 3. Love the breakdown though! Good numbers!
     
  19. Carotene

    Carotene Member

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    Used LR RWD. ~2yrs old. Find one around 20k mi. 5yr/100k warranty left.
     
    • Like x 1
  20. PhaseWhite

    PhaseWhite Member

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    I don't think the Standard Range AWD makes much sense and I am skeptical Tesla will actually offer it. The SR is all about cost optimization. So it doesn't make sense to bundle the small battery with the more expensive AWD configuration. People who can afford AWD would/should also be spending a few extra thousand on more batteries to go along with it. From the specs we have seen to date, it's assumed the SR will ship with a ~50-55KWH battery equating to the estimated 220 mile EPA range. In the real world, the Model 3 AWD has about 10% less efficiency due to weight, extra friction and the less efficient induction motor (when it's used). So that would bring SR AWD range down to around 200 miles. And again, if you need AWD, you probably also want the bigger battery as cold temps and snow will be bringing your effective range down.

    So to the OP, keep saving your pennies and maybe look for a used LR AWD in a few years.
     
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