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Standard Range Plus Autopilot Removed Remotely [by Tesla]

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
10,840
12,568
Riverside Co. CA
Completely agree, JJ, but there's one last little hiccup that might (or might not... I'm not an attorney) help the OP out.

If Carvana was using the Monroney sticker to represent what features were on the car in their advertisement of the vehicle, and upon which they based their purchase price.... well, I think you can see where I'm going with that. ;)

Yeah, I can.. I was typing something to the OP in a similar vein just now. I think we are on the same page there.
 
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MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
16,521
38,697
Oregon
The sticker clearly shows this a Standard Range Plus model with base autopilot included.

The autopilot has been removed and the software screen now shoes this is Standard not the Standard Range Plus it was built and sold for.

The sticker is worthless for you, that is how the car was delivered. Any prior owner could have had Tesla downgrade the car to a SR and get a refund of the difference. (A lot of people on TMC reported that they did exactly that.)

Did Caravan advertise that it was a SR+? If so, they owe you the money to upgrade it back to a SR+. (Though I'm not sure Tesla offers that, I sort of remember people saying that the downgrade was a one-way trip and that it couldn't be re-upgraded to a full SR+ afterwards. Only Basic AP could be added back.)

What did the screen show while the car was at Caravan before you purchased it?
 
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sroy

Closed
Mar 13, 2021
542
232
New Jersey
We do not know how Caravana presented to car to you, what the purchase agreement looks like and if Caravana misrepresented the car to you or not. I am pretty sure you don't have any recourses toward Tesla. If Carvana is at fault and the price you ended up paying is unfair, they should refund you so that you can buy the upgrades from Tesla afterwards.

This page discuss the terms of services softwares-side Privacy & Legal | Tesla I am not done re-reading it but pretty sure it mention the non-transferability of software-based features. And I think there is 2 cases of non-transferability 1) from owner to owner - i.e. used car loses software upgrades and 2) for a single owner i.e. you sell your 2018 SR+ for a 2021 LR, the upgrades you bought for the SR+ are lost.
 
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KenC

Active Member
Sep 4, 2018
3,758
3,495
Maine
I bought this 2020 Tesla Model 3, which the sticker indicates is a Standard Range Plus. The car was made in March 2020. The sticker clearly shows this a Standard Range Plus model with base autopilot included. The car has fog lights which only the Standard Range Plus cars were made with. The base price was $35,000 the Standard Range Plus was $4990 and the destination fee was $1,200 which matches the car's sticker price to exactly.
I bought the car from Carvana with 3,000 miles on it. The autopilot has been removed and the software screen now shoes this is Standard not the Standard Range Plus it was built and sold for. I'm going in circles with the Tesla Service App who are only saying I have to pay $3,000 to get autopilot back. Has this happened and is there recourse?
After this whole discussion, I think it comes down to just two possibilities: one, Carvana, thought they were selling a SR+, represented it that way, and owes compensation to the OP, or should take the car back; or two, the OP saw the amazing price for a SR, saw the options indicated it was actually a SR+, thought they could get a SR+ for the price of a SR. In that case the OP is out of luck. We don't know which possibility it is, unless the OP tells us. Having said that, since the OP seems to want to take Tesla to task, I'm guessing it's possibility #2, basing his position on the Monroney, and not liking the answers he's getting. If he really has a leg to stand on, he should consult a lawyer and not us non-lawyers.
 
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SMAlset

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2017
9,199
10,071
SF Bay Area
In any case I think situations like this point to “Buyer Beware”. Used car purchases do not have the same level of protections that new cars do (LOL learned that from seeing a few Judge Judy episodes). Potential buyers can check the car’s screen/info to establish some basic info, and as more vehicle manufacturers follow Tesla with various software programmed battery capacity limits and software features, it will be more important to check the car out from that perspective — not unlike what you might do by bringing a mechanic with you on a used ICE car being sold by a third party. I’ve recently read major mfgrs are planning or have started charging for all kinds of software enabled features and look at it as a source of revenue...someone even planned to charge monthly for heated steering wheel. Anyway all these type of features will need to be verified as actually still on the car at time of purchase (as you should also do with a new car).

In my mind the used car reseller was responsible for checking out what car he bought from the previous owner and properly representing it to future prospective buyers. Did OP simply rely on a new car Monroney Sticker or did they verify details through the car’s screens?
 
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alexgr

Member
Aug 13, 2019
976
1,015
42
I bought this 2020 Tesla Model 3, which the sticker indicates is a Standard Range Plus. The car was made in March 2020. The sticker clearly shows this a Standard Range Plus model with base autopilot included. The car has fog lights which only the Standard Range Plus cars were made with. The base price was $35,000 the Standard Range Plus was $4990 and the destination fee was $1,200 which matches the car's sticker price to exactly.
I bought the car from Carvana with 3,000 miles on it. The autopilot has been removed and the software screen now shoes this is Standard not the Standard Range Plus it was built and sold for. I'm going in circles with the Tesla Service App who are only saying I have to pay $3,000 to get autopilot back. Has this happened and is there recourse?

But you bought it from Carvana, not from Tesla. So I guess there should be a car description from Carvana. Is it identical to Tesla's description? Maybe some sellers can abuse the cars that can be reconfigured through OTA. For example, one buys a former Tesla Standard Range Plus with FSD from an auction as a Standard Range without Autopilot and saves some money, but then sells the car using the original Tesla description.
 

MikeyMikeD

Member
Jun 7, 2020
169
129
Ohio
I agree with the posters above. The beef should be with Carvana because that is who the transaction was made. You need to show that Carvana made it appear that the vehicle was an SR+ and not an SR. Then take them to task to right your vehicle purchase to match their listing.

Similarly, if you purchased an M3P that someone had taken the spoiler off of, you wouldn't raise issue with Tesla regarding the lack of spoiler. You would take that issue up with the party from whom you purchased the car.
 

qdeathstar

Completely Serious
May 17, 2019
3,777
4,001
VB
they are saying that the original buyer MIGHT have had the option to take standard range plus OFF, and chose to do so, but not providing any proof of it. They are stonewalling and saying that I have to pay $3,000 for basic autopilot which is showing as INCLUDED. Standard Range Plus also allows the battery to be charged past 250 miles... They are totally stonewalling me, and don't know what avenues I have to get the problem fixed

you need to contact Carvana. They sold you a car with listed features the car you have does not have.
 

Candleflame

Active Member
Mar 9, 2015
3,318
1,791
QLD, Australia
Also, fog lights never were part of the SR/+ model. Only LR AWD and P (at least for North American 2020 and newer).

what does the SR+ have instead of the front foglights? just disconnected lights?

I find that a bit ironic anyway since front foglights are hardly needed these days but the rear foglight is still very useful but unless you got a EU spec tesla you dont even get one of those.
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,987
6,096
I bought this 2020 Tesla Model 3, which the sticker indicates is a Standard Range Plus. The car was made in March 2020. The sticker clearly shows this a Standard Range Plus model with base autopilot included. The car has fog lights which only the Standard Range Plus cars were made with. The base price was $35,000 the Standard Range Plus was $4990 and the destination fee was $1,200 which matches the car's sticker price to exactly.
I bought the car from Carvana with 3,000 miles on it. The autopilot has been removed and the software screen now shoes this is Standard not the Standard Range Plus it was built and sold for. I'm going in circles with the Tesla Service App who are only saying I have to pay $3,000 to get autopilot back. Has this happened and is there recourse?
This has been discussed time again, but the Monroney sticker does not necessarily reflect the options in the car itself and many times may be printed incorrectly. Only the order document is the binding agreement.

Did the car have AP activated when it was in Carvana? Did Caravana advertise the car as having AP? Are you saying that it had AP when in Caravana's hands and then when it changed to your hands it was removed? Or was it removed already in Caravana's hands or perhaps didn't have it in the first place?
 
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brkaus

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2014
8,094
6,648
Austin, TX
well if Tesla removed the features on a car they didnt own then its essentially theft... Tesla can't take 19 inch wheels off when someone sells a call and put 18 inch wheels back on in their place...

Sure they can if the original purchaser agreed to put 18 inch wheels on in return for a lower cost or other consideration.
 
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stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,987
6,096
what does the SR+ have instead of the front foglights? just disconnected lights?

I find that a bit ironic anyway since front foglights are hardly needed these days but the rear foglight is still very useful but unless you got a EU spec tesla you dont even get one of those.
From here, the original ones had foglights and they were even connected, it was just software limited (similar to rear heated seats). Later on they switched to dummy fog lights, so you would have to swap out the whole fixture if you wanted to have fog lights on a SR+.
Partial Vs Full- Can you add Fog Lights?
 

Mr X

Future Martian
Jan 18, 2013
2,281
2,293
Simi Valley, CA
Also, fog lights never were part of the SR/+ model. Only LR AWD and P (at least for North American 2020 and newer).

Fog lights were included on early SR+'s but stopped being included on 7/19 builds and after



My 5/19 build has active fog lights. Fog lights make the light output brighter. Headlights on without fogs are dimmer. I always have fogs on at night. Looks cooler too having bright headlight illumination

Fv5U4FW.jpg
 

Candleflame

Active Member
Mar 9, 2015
3,318
1,791
QLD, Australia
Fog lights were included on early SR+'s but stopped being included on 7/19 builds and after



My 5/19 build has active fog lights. Fog lights make the light output brighter. Headlights on without fogs are dimmer. I always have fogs on at night. Looks cooler too having bright headlight illumination

Fv5U4FW.jpg

this really gets to me because many australians ricers also like to drive around with their fog lights on even though it is technically illegal.
Foglights are dazzeling and you blind oncoming traffic and traffic in front of you. The front foglights are also feathered out more, so when traffic goes past you you shine directly at them, rather than the drivers headlight which is slightly more centred and/or dipped.
Same with the rear foglight - its very bright and alarming looking. If you put that on while traffic is following you it is really eyepiercing and quite hard to look anywhere else but the foglight and brake lights fade into nothing,particularly on older cars. doesnt help you look out for real hazards while going fast either.

These lamps are designed to be used when visibility is less than 100m or to undercut fog.
 
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KenC

Active Member
Sep 4, 2018
3,758
3,495
Maine
this really gets to me because many australians ricers also like to drive around with their fog lights on even though it is technically illegal.
Foglights are dazzeling and you blind oncoming traffic and traffic in front of you. The front foglights are also feathered out more, so when traffic goes past you you shine directly at them, rather than the drivers headlight which is slightly more centred and/or dipped.
Same with the rear foglight - its very bright and alarming looking. If you put that on while traffic is following you it is really eyepiercing and quite hard to look anywhere else but the foglight and brake lights fade into nothing,particularly on older cars. doesnt help you look out for real hazards while going fast either.

These lamps are designed to be used when visibility is less than 100m or to undercut fog.
If fog lights “undercut fog” then how can they be “dazzling”?
 

Candleflame

Active Member
Mar 9, 2015
3,318
1,791
QLD, Australia
If fog lights “undercut fog” then how can they be “dazzling”?

the front foglights are mounted on the bottom of the car to reduce glare from fog. historically youd sort of use them without headlights.

they have a very different beam pattern to headlights and are dazzeling to other drivers when there is no reduced visibility and there is a reason in most sensible countries you get points and a fine for driving with foglights when not required. its this sort of stuff which just highlights how important it is that the USA introduces a theory exam and lessons for driving.
 

Gasaraki

Active Member
Oct 21, 2019
2,088
1,449
Syracuse, NY
There is absolutely a chance the monroney is wrong, delivered by tesla in fact. They didnt even give me a monroney until I asked for it in 2018 and they went and printed one off.

The thing is (and you likely are aware of this) the monroney sticker is supposed to let the original purchaser know what the car has, so there is no bait and switch type stuff going on. Tesla has always seemed to be "fast n loose" with the monroney.

I dont think monroney stickers protect anyone but the original purchaser though, so it wouldnt help the OP in this case. I suspect that if you went to tesla and tried to get EAP based on your monroney staying it was paid for, they would dig back and see what was actually paid for and then say "sorry, nope its not paid for, even if its on your monroney" (leading to stuff like this, in fact).
Can't OP just complain to Carvana since that the place where he bought it from. If he paid for a Standard Range Plus and he didn't get the Plus, he should be able to return it to Carvana?
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
10,840
12,568
Riverside Co. CA
Can't OP just complain to Carvana since that the place where he bought it from. If he paid for a Standard Range Plus and he didn't get the Plus, he should be able to return it to Carvana?

Several of us suggested that in this thread. The issue there would be, if carvana has any sort of clause in their contract stating that "we make no declarations software features will remain" or something like that. I seem to remember someone posting about that not too long ago. The OPs issue is with carvana, not with tesla, though.

Either Carvana represented the car as a standard range+ and advertised and sold it to the OP as that, in which case the OP might be able to go back to them and state that the car is not as represented (although if that clause is there, OP may be out of luck), OR OP bought this car from carvana as a standard range, but had SR+ features for "some time" then they were removed, in which case they have no recourse at all.
 

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