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Stanphyl Capital and Mark Spiegel

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by bhzmark, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. slaven0

    slaven0 Member

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    Hmmm, so it's "witch hunt, cowardice and pure insanity" to discuss possibility of coordinared securities fraud by highly exposed short seller/'s and mutual retweeting of FUD by him and series of interconnected fake accounts driving up social media FUD exposure you call..... what?

    Btw, wonder why admins allow your insulting of forum members...
     
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  2. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

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    I've had too many interactions with Mark, over multiple platforms, to let you try and make him a victim. He has been one of the most prolific disseminators of false information over the last several years, and he's part of a concerted effort to manipulate TSLA for personal gain.

    The guy is beyond sleazy, and I have absolutely no sympathy for someone who is getting blowback from his own actions.
     
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  3. Reality

    Reality Member

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    Hey guys, having a twitter account and posting bearish thoughts about a security does not constitute securities fraud.
     
  4. jelloslug

    jelloslug Active Member

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    You are correct but what we are talking about in this thread is what Mark Spiegel is posting.
     
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  5. Reality

    Reality Member

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    Do you have examples? This stance is extremely ridiculous
     
  6. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

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    Disqus Profile - Mark_B_Spiegel

    Knock yourself out, you've got several years, and almost 1,000 posts to get through.
     
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  7. Reality

    Reality Member

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    OK I have a question



    *NOTE THE FOLLOWING NEVER OCCURRED



    If Mark B Spiegel Tweeted out "In 2 months, we are going to make this stock plummet"


    would that be securities fraud for organizing a bear raid? I am not saying it is or isnt, I am asking if that is your stance.
     
  8. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

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    That would depend entirely on his actions after the tweet, I should think. However, I don't believe I ever discussed securities fraud...simply that he's not prolifically spreading FUD around the internet because that's how he gets his rocks off.
     
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  9. trayloader

    trayloader Member

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    Mark Spiegel is next in line. Musk is in beat down mode ATM. It´s a matter of days. Just wait.
    Personally I think he deserves it.
     
  10. slaven0

    slaven0 Member

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    As JohnSnow said, depends on how he does it. There is nothing wrong with shorting and effort by shorters can lead to discovery of valuable info for SEC and shareholders but intentional coordinated spreading of FUD in order to drive the stock down does constitute a securities fraud, see:

    Short-and-Distort
    Bear Raid
     
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  11. dw4ngg

    dw4ngg Member

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    Guys don’t worry. Musk care more than you and is more resourceful and dedicated.
     
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  12. bhzmark

    bhzmark Supporting Member

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  13. trayloader

    trayloader Member

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    Once the smoke clears, this caricature will look similar to Ms. Montana in burning through someone elses investments. I give him max. two weeks.
     
  14. domenick

    domenick Nerd

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    Latest "earnings" report is in. Predictably, it's not good.
     

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  15. SebastianR

    SebastianR Member

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    Love it. No other way to say it.
     
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  16. TheTalkingMule

    TheTalkingMule Distributed Energy Enthusiast

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    LOL....watching these holdouts scramble to cover is gonna be quite a laugh.
     
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  17. Johan

    Johan Funds for M3 secured. Contingent on wife aproval.

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    The proof is in the pudding, as they say... :)
     
  18. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

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    Isn't that his only bearish bet now?
     
  19. Zythryn

    Zythryn M3 Silver, M3 Midnight Silver

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  20. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    Interestingly, Spiegel doesn't disclose the range of assets in his so-called "hedge fund".

    Given that he seems to have lost money nearly every year, I'm thinking it's substantially below the amount initially invested.

    The weird part is that he's been managing to attract fresh money.
    From SEC reports, his "total amount sold":
    $2.8 million by July 2012 (from Arizona and NY, 10 investors)
    $3.042 million by August 2013 (from NY, 11 investors)
    $4.492 million by August 2014 (18 investors)
    $4.532559 million by July 2015 (same investors... someone topped him up)
    $6.282559 million in July 2017 (20 investors)
    $6.682559 million in July 2018 (21 investors)

    Sooo. Digging out his official publications and statements to the press, he was
    -- did not disclose returns in 2012 AFAICT
    -- supposedly up 56% in 2013
    -- did not disclose returns in 2014 AFAICT
    -- down 11.1% in 2015
    -- up 31% in 2016 (due to other stocks, not to his TSLA short), which was apparently the "high water mark"
    -- down 12.4% in 2017
    -- down 15.5% YTD in 2018 October.

    It's not clear how much money he lost in 2012 and 2014, though we know he shorted into the gigantic 2013 TSLA rally, starting at $90, and was massively short TSLA starting in early 2014. He says he shorted in the mid-$200s (so near the 2014 peak), and although he could have been ahead at the end of 2014, he says he wasn't (maybe due to borrowing fees?)

    If we assume that he somehow managed to run flat in 2012 and 2014 (I'm assuming the Aug 2013 money came in after the 2013 gains), we can calculate that he would have had about 4.6 million in early 2016, about 7.2 million in early 2017 (mostly due to some return-chasing fool injecting 1.75 million in), and about $5.7 million now. This could be off because I don't have any records for his earlier performance; I'd actually guess he has less than that.

    Anyway, there are quite a lot of individuals on this forum managing more money than that and doing far better. It's truly interesting that Spiegel's managed to self-promote enough to actually get on news shows and get interviewed by the WSJ, because he's got zero credibility.

    I feel sorry for anyone who put money into Spiegel's so-called "hedge fund" under the mistaken belief that they were investing -- though I do suspect that some were just using him to manipulate the media and wrote off the injections of funds as a marketing expenses.

    Anyway, that was a completely pointless thing to look up, but when I realized Spiegel was "declining to disclose" his assets under management, I started getting curious and decided to try to figure it out.

    His funniest statement is from early on when he says he'll limit the size of the fund to $50 million. Talk about irrational optimism.
     
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