Starting to regret FSD pre-purchase in a major way

[vikefan]

I waffled quite a bit but ultimately decided to plunk down the pre-order cash for FSD functionality “when it becomes available.” I knew this was a huge risk, and I was told by several industry insider friends that I shouldn’t, that Tesla - or anyone else - is still many years away from truly delivering this in the way someone would expect when they say “full self driving autonomy.” I did it anyway.

I’ve been patiently waiting for v9, knowing that the “drive on nav,” while clearly not anything close to FSD, would at least be a big step in the right direction.

Now, after over 2 months of teasing a v9 release date only to delay it, tease it again, then delay it some more, Musk comes out a few hours ago to say they’re pulling drive on nav “for a few more weeks.” Not only that, but in doing so, he also mentions that it’s “extremely difficult to achieve a general solution that works well everywhere.”

This is a serious admission of just how far off Tesla is from FSD. It’s that difficult for them to get freeway “semi-autonomy” (until this car stops nagging me every 20-30 sec to grab the wheel, nothing they do is autonomous IMO) working, and freeway driving is FAR less complicated than any other roadway.

I am seriously questioning at this point whether FSD will be available at any point before my car falls apart due to age alone. If that were to be the case, how can it be legal for Tesla to charge customers money up front for a feature they never deliver before the product deprecates beyond usefulness?

 

[Skotty]

It helps pay for the engineering effort at least. I know that's not much comfort, though.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

I am seriously questioning at this point whether FSD will be available at any point before my car falls apart due to age alone.

Look around in the industry for non-elon-time predictions. those range from 2025 to 2030+ for level 4/5 and ~2021+ for true level 3.
Tbh I think the only thing that really works well right now is standard TACC.

I don`t expect any early adopters for the Model 3 to ever get anything that`s worthy of the "full self driving" term.

how can it be legal for Tesla to charge customers money up front for a feature they never deliver before the product deprecates beyond usefulness?

See AP lawsuit history...... it kinda isn`t.


inb4 people clamouring about how their FSD purchase helps Tesla`s "mission"

 

[Daniel in SD]

I am seriously questioning at this point whether FSD will be available at any point before my car falls apart due to age alone. If that were to be the case, how can it be legal for Tesla to charge customers money up front for a feature they never deliver before the product deprecates beyond usefulness?

Because they’re going to deliver “full self driving features.” Hard to imagine those being very useful but we have no idea what they’ll be.
I think they’re a long long way from FSD too.

 

[vikefan]

Because they’re going to deliver “full self driving features.” Hard to imagine those being very useful but we have no idea what they’ll be.
I think they’re a long long way from FSD too.

It seems to me that would be highly misleading / false advertising. The description of FSD that sold me was how they described it being able to just allow you to get in your car, your car would detect your location from your calendar (or your input), and the car would just go. It would nav side streets, stop lights, stop signs, pedestrians, whatever. In other words, exactly what the term “full self driving” would imply.

This is exactly why false advertising laws are on the books in this country, so vendors can’t tell customers one thing and deliver something that’s very clearly less. That seems to be exactly what Tesla is doing, and just saying “we don’t know exactly when we can deliver it yet,” shouldn’t be considered a legal loophole. Vendors shouldn’t be allowed to sell features for products that they can’t deliver within the product’s lifetime

 

[Skotty]

I've been warning people about this for what seems like years now. But too many people are too optimistic about how quickly it can be implemented, including Tesla. Tesla didn't know it would take so long, nor did anyone else. Because no one listens to me.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

The description of FSD that sold me was how they described it being able to just allow you to get in your car, your car would detect your location from your calendar (or your input), and the car would just go. It would nav side streets, stop lights, stop signs, pedestrians, whatever. In other words, exactly what the term “full self driving” would imply.

If you actually believed that that would happen anytime soon.......uhm, well.

Tesla didn't know it would take so long, nor did anyone else.

I call BS on this one. Everyone else BUT Tesla claimed it would take a very long time to do this. And even within Tesla`s own development team I highly doubt that there are many who believe in Elon`s timelines.
Remember the prominent development faces that seem to have left because they didn`t agree with Elon`s promises?

 

[Lunares]

I also put the $3k down on FSD for a few reasons

1. My car was fully loaded P3D anyways, marginal cost increase wasn't that much ($50 per month)
2. Loan duration is 5 years. So that's my timeframe for considering features being worth it. I did not want to get 3 years into the ownership of the car and have Tesla announce super awesome features and then have to go "ehhhhh should I put another $5k down?"
3. Right now FSD is $5k after delivery, but there is no guarantee that stays constant. Even the old $4k after delivery is "iffy" if it will be honored. It's not in the contract anywhere. By paying $3k now I'm guaranteed to get upgraded for free to the new V3 computing hardware. Wanted to avoid the situation where it's $6k or more later.

TBH it sounds like you were stretching the bank on the car in the first place and then didn't do enough research. I am hoping to get a FSD exclusive feature sometime in the next 2 years. I don't expect true "you don't have to have hands on the wheel" driving until 5 years. I still decided it was worth it, but it also only increased the price of my car by 4%.

 

[ewoodrick]

I also put the $3k down on FSD for a few reasons

1. My car was fully loaded P3D anyways, marginal cost increase wasn't that much ($50 per month)
2. Loan duration is 5 years. So that's my timeframe for considering features being worth it. I did not want to get 3 years into the ownership of the car and have Tesla announce super awesome features and then have to go "ehhhhh should I put another $5k down?"
3. Right now FSD is $5k after delivery, but there is no guarantee that stays constant. Even the old $4k after delivery is "iffy" if it will be honored. It's not in the contract anywhere. By paying $3k now I'm guaranteed to get upgraded for free to the new V3 computing hardware. Wanted to avoid the situation where it's $6k or more later.

TBH it sounds like you were stretching the bank on the car in the first place and then didn't do enough research. I am hoping to get a FSD exclusive feature sometime in the next 2 years. I don't expect true "you don't have to have hands on the wheel" driving until 5 years. I still decided it was worth it, but it also only increased the price of my car by 4%.

And we've been told that any hardware upgrades will be included. That may change for those that haven't purchased yet

 

[Carotene]

I won't even plunk down for EAP yet. Still beta IMO. Show me the polished product and i'll decide if it's worth it given the remaining useful life on the car at that time. Prepaying for unfinished (or non-existent) features on a rapidly depreciating asset like a car is crazy IMO. Also consider the risk of total loss due to accident at any time which destroys the value prop.

 

[Carotene]

It helps pay for the engineering effort at least. I know that's not much comfort, though.

Sorry, not responsible for funding Tesla R&D. Let them recover their dev costs when the product launches like every other company. This isn't a kickstarter campaign...

 

[SMAlset]

Sorry, not responsible for funding Tesla R&D. Let them recover their dev costs when the product launches like every other company. This isn't a kickstarter campaign...

and that's fine to feel that way and you don't have to buy the FSD option, but it's not something being sold now as if it's available to use yet. If someone thinks that then they haven't done enough research and I guess buyer beware applies. Everyone I know who has ordered FSD did so because they wanted to help support it's development, strongly believes in what Tesla in general is trying to do here and when ready to release will have gotten a price break on it. This is a young company breaking ground in electric vehicles and not a Big 5 with a huge cashpile behind them. Their R&D so far has produced fabulous electric cars when no one else was really trying. I guess you believe in the company or not. FSD has been in development for a while now and continues to get refined. Don't believe it's vaporware just not ready for prime time. If Tesla releases it and then tries to get previous owners who ordered it to pay more, well then that would be a problem but I don't see that happening.

We've now purchased 2 Teslas and know from what we've read what to pretty much expect on this front. We know what the end goal is and know that with technology and AI still at a fairly early stage that L5 is not going to happen in the near future. Personally neither of us are comfortable with not being in control of our cars to be interested in ordering it. When we get to the age of not being able to drive, that likely would change as we'd want the mobility and independence it would bring. But have to say that I don't think I'll be trusting enough to even get in a Waymo or other self-driving taxi-like vehicle at any point in the near future despite them being on the road in some places.

 

[jdirik]

I almost added FSD, just to get the new hardware that supposedly is coming. Assuming the increased computing power will improve EAP performance, how does Tesla handle this? Pay for just the hardware upgrade?

 

[Vines]

I nearly paid for FSD, but after seeing reports from 2015 where model S owners bought into this as well and basically have no value for it.

Musk is a billionaire, if he wants another few K for R&D of the FSD, he should look in his checking account not mine.

I really enjoy my EAP however, and its one of the core reasons why I bought the car. When FSD is available, I'll read reviews and if its good enough I'll just pay the upgrade price whatever that is.

Until then I'll invest that money elsewhere.

 

[bluelines]

I was initially very down on Elon and Tesla for the way FSD was positioned. It was never marketed as funding its own development but rather as something that existed, but couldn't be activated because of regulatory issues. This was clearly untrue, misleading and probably illegal under various consumer protection statutes. As to the argument that the FSD dollars are funding its development, this probably isn't even true. It's just a cash grab going towards reducing the general cash burn.

But like the rest of the tweets and half-truths / fabrications, these things are all accompanied by delivery of what are still the only viable long range electric cars on the market. Still the legacy manufacturers are at the point of very slow roll-outs at best, or "coming soon in 2020, 2021, 2022..."

I think the delivery of the S, X and 3 wouldn't have been possible without Elon's hubris and various personality "traits", so without the fantasy of FSD, going private, the Roadster, Semi, Y..., we wouldn't have the reality of the vehicles we are currently driving every day. That's my glass-half-full take on the few thousand seemingly flushed down the toilet by anyone who bought FSD.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Well you could argue that it is being held back for regulatory issues. They've shown demo videos of it working just fine. It's those darn liability laws preventing release.

 

[Lunares]

I won't even plunk down for EAP yet. Still beta IMO. Show me the polished product and i'll decide if it's worth it given the remaining useful life on the car at that time. Prepaying for unfinished (or non-existent) features on a rapidly depreciating asset like a car is crazy IMO. Also consider the risk of total loss due to accident at any time which destroys the value prop.

EAP is so useful though. Sure it's still in beta, but I use it every day commuting to work and it performs great. If what you want is the best autosteer + TACC system on the market for highway driving, that's EAP. sure there are some highways with lane lines it doesn't like, and you shouldn't use it if the weather is really poor, but as a driving assist program it's absolutely amazing. Now is that worth $5k? That's up to you. But even as a beta product EAP is absolutely worth it in my mind.

 

[Glamisduner]

It's kinda cool that you will be getting new features in the future that others like myself will not. You should also get the computer upgrade next year.

I mean did you think full FSD would be available within a year or two? I think it's several years away still. Maybe even 5-10. But it's worth more than 3k when it does actually come out!

 

[Eno Deb]

It's kinda cool that you will be getting new features in the future that others like myself will not. You should also get the computer upgrade next year.

Just remember it's an Elon year, which is kind of like a dog year in reverse.

 

[cab]

Wait...FSD stands for "Full Self Driving"? Oh wow, I thought it was Fake Self Driving...or...Flush Stash Down...or...Foolish Sales Deception...or....Fun Skinning Drivers...or...well, my bad.