Startled by computer taking over braking [Automatic Emergency Braking]

[SteelClouds]

Yeah.. after 3 months the computer decided that I was not stopping fast enough in a semi emergency and slammed on the brakes. It's very unsettling to be pushing one the brakes then have them drop another inch on their own with that damn alarm. The driver behind me ended up next to me because she wasn't expecting my car to suddenly decided to come to halt vs rolling it out. Her fault for being too close but I still would have had a damaged car. It was one of those "fuzzy" situations where yes, the car in front was stopping but the cars in front of THEM were moving again so they would have started to move forward in a second.. hence the slow stopping.. The computer disagreed and overruled me :/ Not a fan of this even if it's a "safety" feature. I have two young drivers and I'm torn on how to configure the car when they as to drive it ( a few months away).. leave the auto brake and have it do something like this to someone without any experience or turn if off with someone without any experience .. ugh... it used to be simple.. did you have enough leg muscle to push the drum brakes

 

[sightman]

I had something similar happen though I was fine with the decision the car made. Was traveling about 25mph and let go off the go pedal to have regen slow me down. Car in front of me slams the brakes, hard, I notice by way of the car’s rear lifting up as its weight shifted forward. Just as this happened all sorts of alarms went off in my car and it too slammed the brakes.

 

[firstkill]

Menu setting can turn down how aggressive the feature is. First time it happened to me I went home and turned it down the sensitivity

 

[afadeev]

Yeah.. after 3 months the computer decided that I was not stopping fast enough in a semi emergency and slammed on the brakes. It's very unsettling to be pushing one the brakes then have them drop another inch on their own with that damn alarm. [...] It was one of those "fuzzy" situations where yes, the car in front was stopping but the cars in front of THEM were moving again so they would have started to move forward in a second.. hence the slow stopping.. The computer disagreed and overruled me :/

Yeah, that's one of the reasons I've DIS-abled emergency braking in my Model 3. It engages too late, too violently, and usually unnecessarily. Either the cars in front have started moving and Tesla decided to panic, or vehicle ahead is making a slow turn and will get out of the way, and Tesla decides to slam on the brakes.

Similarly, I've disabled Emergency Lane Departure warning for similar reasons.

Not a fan of this even if it's a "safety" feature. I have two young drivers and I'm torn on how to configure the car when they as to drive it ( a few months away).. leave the auto brake and have it do something like this to someone without any experience or turn if off with someone without any experience .. ugh... it used to be simple.. did you have enough leg muscle to push the drum brakes

Driving Tesla with all pseudo-safety features requires learning about their limitations, being prepared for when they fail, and being on the constant lookout to mitigate and counter their poor choices.
That's a distraction from learning how to drive.
You want your (and in a few years my) kids to learn to DRIVE a car, not DRIVE AROUND one particular car's weirdnesses.

Unless you are a total clutz with a history of bouncing off the guard rails and other cars' bumpers, you might be better off with those features turned off.

YMMV,
a

 

[Knightshade]

Statistically FCW and automated emergency braking drastically lowers accident rates--anywhere from 25-50% in most studies compared to cars without it- but everyone thinks they are the above average driver who doesn't need it.

 

[afadeev]

Statistically FCW and automated emergency braking drastically lowers accident rates--anywhere from 25-50% in most studies compared to cars without it- but everyone thinks they are the above average driver who doesn't need it.

I'm open to reconsidering my preferences - can you share the data ?
Preferably, an independent 3rd party study, not some OEM (aka Tesla) touting its own horn!

 

[Knightshade]

I'm open to reconsidering my preferences - can you share the data ?
Preferably, an independent 3rd party study, not some OEM (aka Tesla) touting its own horn!

That FCW and AEB reduce accident rates? There's tons of such studies.... he's a couple I cited recently in another thread (and they each reference a number of other supporting studies as well)

Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB) System Impact on Fatality and Injury Reduction in China

The automatic emergency braking (AEB) system is an effective intelligent vehicle active safety system for avoiding certain types of collisions. This study develops a national-level safety impact evaluation model for this intelligent vehicle function, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

(don't let the in china bit fool you-- it cites outcomes from other countries as well)

Some highlights:

based on Gyeonggi province crash data, AEB could prevent approximately 50% of the total rear-end crashes

A meta-analysis was used to evaluate AEB’s effectiveness in different countries. The result showed a surprising 38% overall reduction in real-world, rear-end crashes for vehicles fitted with low speed AEB compared to a comparison sample of equivalent vehicles

Hellman evaluated the crash mitigation effect of automated emergency braking systems based on data reported to insurance companies in Sweden. The result shows that rear-end frontal collisions were reduced by 27% for cars with AEB, compared to cars without the system

the effectiveness of preventing pedestrian fatalities and severe injuries from impact by the front of a car was 44% and 33%, respectively

Effectiveness of forward collision warning and autonomous emergency braking systems in reducing front-to-rear crash rates

The objective of this study was to evaluate the effectiveness of forward collision warning (FCW) alone, a low-speed autonomous emergency braking (AEB)…

www.sciencedirect.com

Some highlights:

Forward collision warning (FCW) reduced front-to-rear crash rates 27% and front-to-rear injury crash rates 20%.

Low-speed autonomous emergency braking (AEB) reduced front-to-rear crash rates 43% and front-to-rear injury crash rates 45%.

FCW with AEB reduced front-to-rear-crash rates 50% and front-to-rear injury crash rates 56%.

 

[CarlThompson]

... the car in front was stopping but the cars in front of THEM were moving again so they would have started to move forward in a second.. hence the slow stopping.. The computer disagreed and overruled me :/

I'm going to disagree with most people here and say you made a poor decision and the car made a better one.

It's dangerous to base your driving on what you assume other drivers will do or what they should do. You should base your driving on what you see other drivers actually doing. Don't expect them to get out of your way for you. What if the person in the car ahead didn't notice traffic was moving again right away or what if they were someone who saw you in their mirror and thought being rear-ended by a Tesla owner is a good way for a payday? What would you have done? You'd have done the same thing the car did except you would have done it even later giving the car behind you even less time to react.

What you should have done is smoothly stop or slow down earlier.

 

[SteelClouds]

It's dangerous to base your driving on what you assume other drivers will do or what they should do

Agreed.. but the cars WERE moving and the one in front of me had just taken their foot off the brake. ( looked at the video) From a human POV, there was no reason to slam the brakes on to a dead stop. I was already slowing down and could have stopped had I wanted to easily enough. It just wasn't fast enough for the somewhat intelligent computer. That goes back to my statement of this was one of those "fuzzy" situations where my Mark1 eyeball clearly saw and evaluated much more than the computer saw/evaluated. You gotta admit.. when a human brain works correctly . its damn fast

 

[CarlThompson]

... but the cars WERE moving and the one in front of me had just taken their foot off the brake.

Just because they took their foot off the brake doesn't mean they are going to start moving immediately and you shouldn't have assumed it. As I said there are any number of reasons the car in front could have not moved even though they took their foot off the brake. What if the car just cut off due to a mechanical or electrical issue? I've had more than one of my own cars (both ICE and EV) cut off in the middle of the street at lights over the course of my life. I'm glad on none of those occasions was there someone behind me who assumed that because my brake lights were off for a moment they didn't need to stop for my non-moving car!

 

[VeryRealPerson]

Setting for your kids? Keep the features on.

FCW I turned off but I kept my AEB on. I only experienced 1 AEB situation in the 18,000 km of driving. Person was arrogantly jaywalking (entitled walking type of thing, didn't care about stopping or slowing down the oncoming traffic) and I was being arrogant back and accelerated close to scare him a bit.

Obviously my behaviour is immature here but that was the only time the car decided it should engage AEB. It was super violent and I sure learned my lesson haha. I still keep AEB on because I just imagine any scenario where it actually would have benefited me and that wins out over mild annoyances of AEB engaging or AEB engaging because I am being a bad person.

Given that I was purposely being a prick and it was the only time AEB was engaged, AEB is probably doing a good job at keeping people in and outside of the car safe. I agree with comments above that the car software probably made the right choice in the situation you were involved in.

 

[MacNeil]

Where I live vehicles with AEB are entitled to a lower insurance premium. I have to presume that discount is based on crash data, not the insurance company being benevolent. It does make me wonder what happens if the driver turns off the AEB and that contributes to a crash. I don't imagine insurance companies would be too happy about that situation. Also how many cars with AEB allow it to be adjusted or turned off entirely?

 

[Ren.OG]

but everyone thinks they are the above average driver who doesn't need it.

nah just us TMC dwellers and car enthusiasts lol

 

[gearchruncher]

Yeah, that's one of the reasons I've DIS-abled emergency braking in my Model 3.

Do you actually go in every single time you drive and turn it off? According to the manual:

Automatic Emergency Braking is always enabled when you start Model 3. To disable it for your current drive, touch Controls > Autopilot > Automatic Emergency Braking.

 

[jkeyser14]

Statistically FCW and automated emergency braking drastically lowers accident rates--anywhere from 25-50% in most studies compared to cars without it- but everyone thinks they are the above average driver who doesn't need it.

Averages typically follow a bell curve. Plenty of people fall out of that middle 25-50% and don't need additional driver aids.

 

[Knightshade]

but everyone thinks they are the above average driver who doesn't need it.

Averages typically follow a bell curve. Plenty of people fall out of that middle 25-50% and don't need additional driver aids.

WE HAVE A WINNER!


Seriously though, if you're such an awesome driver you'll never stop so unsafely it triggers AEB, leaving it on isn't a problem is it? And if some relative who's NOT a 12 time racing champion borrows it you'll be glad it's there!

 

[jkeyser14]

Unfortunately AEB triggers falsely on occasion. I have experienced it several times over the years. Light colored cars that the old 2018 camera has trouble seeing (blends with the sky), tight radius multi-lane turn lanes, and even stopped traffic on steep hills where the car ignores gravity slowing the car down have all been the causes.

 

[CarlThompson]

Unfortunately AEB triggers falsely on occasion. I have experienced it several times over the years.

My early 2018 Model 3 never once triggered AEB wrongly (though I have gotten a few forward collision warnings) and the Bay Area has some of the worst traffic anywhere.

I miss Baltimore! Send me some crabcakes from Timbuktu, please!

 

[Ren.OG]

Seriously though, if you're such an awesome driver you'll never stop so unsafely it triggers AEB, leaving it on isn't a problem is it? And if some relative who's NOT a 12 time racing champion borrows it you'll be glad it's there!

Then there's two winners. I had the same thing happen to me and now my brakes are warped.
The MAIN issue is we expect the computers to be LIVE but instead there's a delay, a noticeable one.

 

[linux-works]

Yeah.. after 3 months the computer decided that I was not stopping fast enough in a semi emergency and slammed on the brakes. It's very unsettling to be pushing one the brakes then have them drop another inch on their own with that damn alarm. The driver behind me ended up next to me because she wasn't expecting my car to suddenly decided to come to halt vs rolling it out. Her fault for being too close but I still would have had a damaged car.

I've said this a few times and I'll say it again. if you had a warning light on your car, like an indicator of some kind (an external telltale) that shows other drivers that you are in non-human (mix, etc) mode. that and some driver education and PR campains (even laws, I'd like that, tbh) would get us 10x more safety in this human machine hybrid road sharing that will go on the next 10 or more years.

cops and ambulances and fire all have lights on top. I'm not saying we should have lights on top. we can be creative. the industry added a 3rd stop light a few decades ago. there was a time we had to use hand signals and then we added blinkers. so we have a history of adding indicators when it makes sense.

hey world: IT MAKES SENSE, NOW.

it really does.

just think about it. maybe if enough agree and someone tries it, we may find it helps a lot.

telling those around us what's going on is certainly in everyone's best interest. a light or something (please, not blinking!) is a first obvious choice. sound? not sure. at high speed, sound is not going to be heard. but light will be seen. and light is cheap and easy to do, plus we've done it many times before for other situations.