Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register
  • Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
  • The final cut of TMC Podcast #27 is available now with topics time-stamped. We discussed: Consolidation in LiDAR manufacturers; Volvo EX90 shipping with LiDAR; FSD Beta Full Release in N.A.; FSD detecting autopilot cheats, Gwen Shotwell directly overseeing SpaceX Starship; and more. You can watch it now on YouTube. We should have it published to podcast networks shortly.

Stated Range vs Real World

Adopado

Well-Known Member
Aug 19, 2019
6,493
4,996
Scotland
Hi all

Yes, yet another one of these range threads

I understand it’s winter, although recent temps haven’t been mental cold at all (didn’t have a jacket on yesterday!).

Anyway, cars charged to 70% there, states 211mi range but 123mi real world, for a 70% charge.

Driving wise, ok yes short trips, couple miles here couple miles there through the day. Manual climate set to 21. I’ve used TeslaFi recently and not seeing anything in phantom drain or anything nasty that leaps out screaming PROBLEM!

So…….I guess the question is, is this normal to see? A real world range that’s nearly 50% less than stated range?

Well, it depends on where and how you are driving on whatever types of roads ... yesterday I covered 100 miles doing two 50 mile return trips (temps 7 to 8 degrees). I used a displayed 50% of the much smaller battery in the SR+. There are a couple reasons why consumption was so good, and they would likely apply to you in the same situation. Firstly we were going to hospital for planned appointments and calm driving was the order of the day. All the roads travelled were dry and were narrow and twisty enough that average speed was probably about 40mph ... so only brief maximums of 60 but frequently 45 or below. None of the roads were dual carriageway or motorway requiring higher speeds. Consumption was 241 Wh/mile but a little battery used warming the car when waiting at the destination. (The car had been well warmed before setting off though.) WLTP is going to be representing best case driving conditions ... maybe a bit like I just described ...

I wouldn't get the same numbers if needing to set off at the crack of dawn for a commute with traffic delays (which then require time to be made up to arrive promptly), using routes that mostly include motorways with higher speed ... or with weather issues. Splitting the same distance into several trips would also be a noticeable hit in my car due to cooling and warming losses. And of course putting my foot down could easily eat 1% per mile so double the consumption. My car doesn't have a stated range, in the sense that I don't set it to state its range at the beginning of my trip, it just shows me the battery percentage. With my knowledge of the trip on which I'm about to embark I can approximate my anticipated range.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Drew57
I’d comfortably get 200 miles on a run and a LR/P should get another 30-40 miles on that without issue.

You definitely will not get 240 miles comfortably from an M3P. As other state, at best, I only ever get 20 miles for each 10% of battery In my M3P over 2 years of ownership.

The LR is more efficient and you may well manage 240 miles in that. I think SR and P are similar on range. The SR may even be better than the P!
 
As the others have said - a series of short journeys will obliterate your range (even in summer - although less so)…

Air temperature is meaningless with regards to battery (to an extent) other than you might decide you don’t need to use the AC / heating when driving!

Your 5 minute drive will result in your car spending between 30-60 minutes doing what it does post drive every time which eats into your available battery.
 
Surely consumption over very short local trips only matters of you can’t plug in at home or regularly?

If your going out over 100 miles and back again, then just charge it to 90/100% and crack on. Beyond 110 each way then you are probably needing public chargers regardless. Either way I’m not sure what the big deal is here.

My RWD car has averaged 258wh/mi the last couple of months. I don’t drive like a grandad either, I drive to the speed limit everywhere where appropriate and to get anywhere from my tiny rural town is a 70mph dual carriageway.

I’d comfortably get 200 miles on a run and a LR/P should get another 30-40 miles on that without issue.

Like I said at the top of the post, consumption over local distances isn’t really relevant as you’ll be plugging in regularly anyway.

If you can’t plug in regularly an EV probably isn’t for you in 2022 and sticking with ICE is probably the best bet as good as an EV is to drive.
Plugging in every night, it’s plugged in even when not needing a charge (as per Tesla advice). Charges only to 70% for daily trips
 
tl;dr - Winter makes a big difference. As do short trips.

Non heat pump Model 3 LR. Heating/AC on at 20C. No preheating.

This morning we got 72% (324Wh/mile) and 77% (304Wh/mile) - mostly A roads ~ 14 miles each way. I do have M option but didn't take it this morning.

This is our average efficiency (ie mileage vs rated miles - typically 290-300) since December. Trips over 5 miles, which rules out the short trips that disproportionally affect efficiency in early stages of a trip.
1644405756884.png


Now compare the same with April - September last year. Much better.
1644406054919.png


This is the same but averaged over 2+ years (3 winters, 2 summers - one mostly lockdown).
1644405486371.png


And this is lifetime average again, but filters out the regular early morning 'taxi run' which are often mixed A and M roads.
1644405349205.png
 
There's just been a succession of P owners here (me one of them) saying that's a fantasy. Why on earth would you assert it in the face of that chorus? On what do you base that view? Tesla's advertising? Or a comparison of apples with oranges?
Perhaps a tad unnecessarily aggressive?
You definitely will not get 240 miles comfortably from an M3P. As other state, at best, I only ever get 20 miles for each 10% of battery In my M3P over 2 years of ownership.

The LR is more efficient and you may well manage 240 miles in that. I think SR and P are similar on range. The SR may even be better than the P!

Well it depends when you took ownership of your P/LR. I’m fairly sure my 60kwh RWD actually has a slightly higher WLTP/EPA rating than a 2 year old P model so it getting slightly more range isn’t a huge surprise.

Likewise a newer P model has a WLTP/EPA rating has a significantly higher than a 2 year old model. The newest LR/P has a 20kwh or a 30% capacity advantage over a RWD model and they certainly are not 30% less efficient when driven the same way.

Yes I know WLTP/EPA isn’t a real world measure but they are relative to what you can expect to get in the real world. A car with a 30% higher rating will probably get 30% more real world range.

The numbers I suggested where for a long run, using the latest model of the car so your older car is never going to achieve that. I am assuming the original poster has the latest version as they come across as a new owner. As I said, before consumption over short journeys isn’t that relevant unless you can’t plug in regularly. The start of any journey always uses a ton of energy in winter to get everything warmed up, and efficiency really starts to settle in on a run. You’ll see a lot better numbers on a 150-200 mile trip than you do a 27 mile trip.

Perhaps there is also a point around driving style to consider? At the end of the day you picked the P car because you want the extra power. There isn’t much point in owning it if you don’t use it and that isn’t going to coincide with a large range.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mik3LR
My 2019 LR (on 19s and with AB) has averaged about 303wh/mi since ownership, on all sorts of roads\speeds, however I also use the 2 miles to 1% guide.

Short trips may be very inefficient but its easy to plug in at home so doesn't concern me so much.
Long trips are where the range matters for me and these tend to be on motorways at 70-75mph, which is also not great for efficiency. I have a 185 mile round trip to see my mother and if I leave with about 100% (only set for long trips) I get back with about 12%, theoretically making 210 miles maximum in those conditions.

However I wouldn't feel 'comfortable' attempting a 200mile motorway trip, as I'd be checking to the energy monitor non stop for the last 30 miles.

I think there are many variables - Model 3 model , year, wheel size, driving style, battery degradation - that will allow some to achieve amazing range and others (like me) no so much. :)
 
I know people say "don't trust the website". And they're right, you shouldn.t But I hope you realise that it isn't Tesla's choice to put that misleading figure on their site. They have to do the WLTP test, and regardless of how unrealistic that test is, they have to publish that figure.

So it's not so much Tesla trying to mislead you as a bad test. Indeed if you click on the WLTP wording on their site it says "All ranges follow the WLTP standard, which can be useful in comparing ranges among electric vehicles. " Which is pretty much what the test is designed for. So when you see a Mustang Mach E for example having a WLTP range of 400 miles, and a Model 3 getting 305, you know that the Mustang Mach E will almost certainly have a fair bit more range. Not 95 miles, but a fair bit.

As Tesla's site then says "Actual range may vary based on factors such as speed, weather conditions and elevation change.".

Why people are surprised when they don't get the quoted range is beyond me, since they a) have to put it b) have the put the WLTP figure and c) it's not designed to give you a range you can achieve, but to be used as a comparison.
 
  • Like
Reactions: UkNorthampton
I know people say "don't trust the website". And they're right, you shouldn.t But I hope you realise that it isn't Tesla's choice to put that misleading figure on their site. They have to do the WLTP test, and regardless of how unrealistic that test is, they have to publish that figure.

So it's not so much Tesla trying to mislead you as a bad test. Indeed if you click on the WLTP wording on their site it says "All ranges follow the WLTP standard, which can be useful in comparing ranges among electric vehicles. " Which is pretty much what the test is designed for. So when you see a Mustang Mach E for example having a WLTP range of 400 miles, and a Model 3 getting 305, you know that the Mustang Mach E will almost certainly have a fair bit more range. Not 95 miles, but a fair bit.

As Tesla's site then says "Actual range may vary based on factors such as speed, weather conditions and elevation change.".

Why people are surprised when they don't get the quoted range is beyond me, since they a) have to put it b) have the put the WLTP figure and c) it's not designed to give you a range you can achieve, but to be used as a comparison.
The range estimates are like the range on petrol or diesel cars, which now appear to be false due to the cheating scandals.

To get closer to the range quoted, you would need to be driving in the Netherlands, in the hot summer. Maybe next year I will get to put that to the test.
 

init6

Active Member
Oct 16, 2020
2,116
1,456
Scotland
tl;dr - Winter makes a big difference. As do short trips.

Non heat pump Model 3 LR. Heating/AC on at 20C. No preheating.

This morning we got 72% (324Wh/mile) and 77% (304Wh/mile) - mostly A roads ~ 14 miles each way. I do have M option but didn't take it this morning.

This is our average efficiency (ie mileage vs rated miles - typically 290-300) since December. Trips over 5 miles, which rules out the short trips that disproportionally affect efficiency in early stages of a trip.
View attachment 766817

Now compare the same with April - September last year. Much better.
View attachment 766818

This is the same but averaged over 2+ years (3 winters, 2 summers - one mostly lockdown).
View attachment 766816

And this is lifetime average again, but filters out the regular early morning 'taxi run' which are often mixed A and M roads.
View attachment 766815
"pointless"

:)
 
I drive a 2020 M3P. I live in Leicester and this time last year i was doing Leeds and back, round trip of 214 miles on a single charge. Charge overnight, precondition for an 0400 start, arrive at 6am, do a days work (sentry on all day) then drive home, generally on the mway at least 70 mph and i'd get home with between 5-15%.

I know it's not the stated 329 and I expected a realistic figure but to be honest, I'm more than happy with being able to do that kind of mileage without charge.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Adopado
Fascinating thread! Ive got a MY on order and tbh, I've not really thought too much on range as I just want to get on with using it as I'm have a home charger. But this thread has opened my eyes to people's anxieties/frustrations...!

I have a 40 mile round trip to work...ideally I don't want to be charging every night (extreme laziness) but is it OK to charge up to say, 95% each time until you're down to say, 10-20% before plugging in again...I'm just trying to see whether people have developed strategies so the 'range anxiety' doesn't kick in and you can just enjoy the car.

(With my diesel, I don't fill up to 80%, I just want to avoid going to a pump as infrequently as possible)
 
The above is fine but you’ll probably end up plugging in every other day anyway.

Personally I’d just plug it in daily and not worry about it. I mean I plug mine in ever time I get home regardless of the charge level and it soon becomes habit.

You’ll want to plug it for most nights anyway if your on something like Octopus Go as you’ll not get a full recharge in the cheap 4 hour window.
 
I have a 40 mile round trip to work...ideally I don't want to be charging every night (extreme laziness) but is it OK to charge up to say, 95% each time until you're down to say, 10-20% before plugging in again...I'm just trying to see whether people have developed strategies so the 'range anxiety' doesn't kick in and you can just enjoy the car.

Why would you not plug in if you have a home charger? It takes seconds. Unless of course you wouldn't usually park your EV near your charger, but then it's worth reconsidering the regular parking location of your EV.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Drforty7
I happened to have my trips up when driving to work today, my total average for the life of the car is 255 wh/m (I've never reset trip a or b) and the average for my drive in was 289 wh/m - that started at something like 598 wh/m and dropped sharply after around 3-4 miles, so I expect it would have stayed up there if my journey was a lot shorter. Stop/start 30/40 mph roads for the most part into work.

I did a long run last year that was mostly motorway speeds and covered ~135 miles for 51% battery (very handy), so I have a nice easy calculation giving me a theoretical range of around 270 miles for a full charge. 9-14°C across that run, clear skies with gusty wind so a reasonable rule-of-thumb figure I think.

I wonder how much big wheels on the P are responsible for the surprisingly high averages being reported?
 
  • Like
Reactions: stonecoldrmw

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top