That would be great... it would be nice to see your MS with mods in person there aren't many if any in this area....
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Std Audio Speaker Upgrades - Recommendations?
- Thread starter jskenney
- Start date
That would be great... it would be nice to see your MS with mods in person there aren't many if any in this area....
I may stop by there this month I have a marathon on the 22 in the DC area so that might be the best opportunity..knocking out two birds with one stone
Please report back on what you think of the speakers after you get them done. I have the non-premium with an after market sub and it is a huge improvement with that upgrade alone.
Just a word of caution for anyone considering speaker upgrade:
As soon as I got my new MS a few weeks back with the standard system, I could make out that the sound system was not great. Moreover, increasing the bass or the treble in the equalizer did not have the kind of response I was hoping for.
It was an accidental discovery when I plugged in a usb flash drive with amazon purchased mp3s as well as uncompressed audio CDs wav files.
I heard the same song over spotify premium (on my phone) via bluetooth and USB back to back-- DAY and NIGHT difference. I cannot stress this enough - before you look for a speaker upgrade, please do play high bit rate mp3 or uncompressed music from the USB. With the USB, the treble is crystal clear and responds very well to the equalizer. The bass is also much better and by pumping the bass up to 6.0 in the equalizer, the music sounds pretty darn good for most genres of music.
The quality of both slacker as well as phone-bluetooth suck! USB is the only way to go for high quality music in the Tesla.
I typically don't like to listen to music beyond volume 8.0-8.2 which I think is pretty loud so I cannot comment on how well the speakers will handle volumes beyond that level.
Can the system use a dedicated sub? Yes, definitely! A sub will provide that solid kick-in-the-chest feeling that is currently lacking. But as far as speaker upgrades go? - my ears don't seem to find the need for that.
As soon as I got my new MS a few weeks back with the standard system, I could make out that the sound system was not great. Moreover, increasing the bass or the treble in the equalizer did not have the kind of response I was hoping for.
It was an accidental discovery when I plugged in a usb flash drive with amazon purchased mp3s as well as uncompressed audio CDs wav files.
I heard the same song over spotify premium (on my phone) via bluetooth and USB back to back-- DAY and NIGHT difference. I cannot stress this enough - before you look for a speaker upgrade, please do play high bit rate mp3 or uncompressed music from the USB. With the USB, the treble is crystal clear and responds very well to the equalizer. The bass is also much better and by pumping the bass up to 6.0 in the equalizer, the music sounds pretty darn good for most genres of music.
The quality of both slacker as well as phone-bluetooth suck! USB is the only way to go for high quality music in the Tesla.
I typically don't like to listen to music beyond volume 8.0-8.2 which I think is pretty loud so I cannot comment on how well the speakers will handle volumes beyond that level.
Can the system use a dedicated sub? Yes, definitely! A sub will provide that solid kick-in-the-chest feeling that is currently lacking. But as far as speaker upgrades go? - my ears don't seem to find the need for that.
You are absolutely correct ... that’s a mini (USB) upgrade
. My urgency for a new system is on pause at least for a couple of months of listening to FLAC I would say your are on the right track.
Get a 2 way or 3 way front stage and a sub with a dsp. I personally would totally skip spending money on the rears. I kept my base rears and when you have passengers in the rear the 25w rms to the factory speakers is fine for rear fill. 90 percent of the time you will use only front stage. Tuning rears correctly is much more of an issue as well.
I also think you may want more power for the sub like 500 w rms.
I am in DC area if you want to hear my system pm me.
I went with Audiofrog 3 way front GB series and a audiofrog 10" GB sub as well.
Helix psix amp dsp combo 120w x 6
500w sub amp
Tuning and install is almost more important than the system. It will change the sound night and day when tuned correctly and I can show you the present differences tuned and not, and time aligned for different seating positions in the car.
Also as far as I know the twk is more for line leveling the sound input. It does have a mild EQ for output settings but it's not a full parametric 31 band EQ that can tune each speaker for a perfect response. You would need to add a mosconi 6 to 8 for that or other brand dsp depending on what products you go with.
Sub will help immensely. I've had one for 3 years, I'd never go back. As for the USB media source, it's a shame the media player is still broken with shuffle, play restarts, loading errors/rescans, all on top of just a general lack of good features. So while yes, FLAC on USB is the best way to listen, best of luck trying to do it without frustrating yourself.
timvracer
Member
I have mentioned before I went with a REUS audio system upgrade (amps, crossovers, eq, subwoofer, front tweeters, new additional center tweeter behind the mirror), because I wanted something that would compete with the Audi B&O Premium upgrade.
Now this is what truly is night and day, the sound is awesome, and I treasure every minute of my commute because of it. If anyone in the CA Bay Area would like to hear this system, let me know. Hearing is believing. It is a 4-5k system on top of the UHFS upgrade, not cheap, but also not the insane 30k+ systems you see on here with the glowing amps in the back.
Listening to FLAC may help, but trust me, when the system is done "right", the difference is mind blowing. The standard system, or the LHR speakers just can't do that.
Now this is what truly is night and day, the sound is awesome, and I treasure every minute of my commute because of it. If anyone in the CA Bay Area would like to hear this system, let me know. Hearing is believing. It is a 4-5k system on top of the UHFS upgrade, not cheap, but also not the insane 30k+ systems you see on here with the glowing amps in the back.
Listening to FLAC may help, but trust me, when the system is done "right", the difference is mind blowing. The standard system, or the LHR speakers just can't do that.
fabricator
Musaic Audiophile Design
Just want you to know that I am the head tech that worked on all the Tesla's that came to Safe and Sound. All of the prior jobs you have seen were done by myself. Should you proceed with Safe and Sound, you would be getting the work done by a different tech. I have recently moved to SoundFX in Lewes, Delaware (no sales tax) and if you were to make the trip, you would have a loaner car for the period of time you would be here. It will be a completely new tech that will be performing the installation. I just want you to be clear on that. Let me know if you have any other questions.
fabricator
Musaic Audiophile Design
Keep in mind @artisjr, that I am now at SoundFX. I don't want to see a bunch of guys going to Safe and Sound thinking they are going to get the same results of what they have seen in these videos. Much like the work you are promoting.
I'm glad you mentioned that because Monday I went to S&S and spoke of you and your work and I didnt get any response. I just figured you was working at the other location. +7 hour drive
Yesterday I got adventurous and decided to replace the mid-range speakers in the doors on my own. I used the LH speaker mounts I already had from the LH S4D kit to mount the speakers, and installed 6.5" Focal PS165FX woofers in both the front and rear doors. I'll have the professionals install the tweeters, sub, amps, and dsp. But I was curious as to what just a speaker swap would do for me.
I decided to look at the signal that is going into the speakers, I have a Behringer DEQ2496 equalizer that I use in my office that has a built in RTA, below is a snapshot (eq settings zeroed out) with pink noise playing, tested at the wire plug in the doors.
Rear Speakers:
The rear speakers receive signal from 10Hz to 20kHz, the signal drops down after 10kHz. Overall the signal was flatter than I had expected, test tones were visible throughout (again just not as strong on the upper end)
Front Speakers:
Front speakers, receive a full signal, but it looks like they add more signal at the upper range.
The sound is a considerable improvement over stock, and the Focal Flax speakers have a nice natural tone. If I didnt want a bit more bass, I would be comfortable stopping here.
Final Part List (to be installed in a few weeks)
- 2x Focal Flax PS165FX Component Set (woofers only in rear doors)
- 10" Focal P25F Subwoofer
- Mosconi One 130.4 and 130.2 Amplifiers
- Mosconi 6to8 DSP
- Sound Deadining
Additionally I am going to have them install the 2" Ecohitch for my bike.
I decided to look at the signal that is going into the speakers, I have a Behringer DEQ2496 equalizer that I use in my office that has a built in RTA, below is a snapshot (eq settings zeroed out) with pink noise playing, tested at the wire plug in the doors.
Rear Speakers:
The rear speakers receive signal from 10Hz to 20kHz, the signal drops down after 10kHz. Overall the signal was flatter than I had expected, test tones were visible throughout (again just not as strong on the upper end)
Front Speakers:
Front speakers, receive a full signal, but it looks like they add more signal at the upper range.
The sound is a considerable improvement over stock, and the Focal Flax speakers have a nice natural tone. If I didnt want a bit more bass, I would be comfortable stopping here.
Final Part List (to be installed in a few weeks)
- 2x Focal Flax PS165FX Component Set (woofers only in rear doors)
- 10" Focal P25F Subwoofer
- Mosconi One 130.4 and 130.2 Amplifiers
- Mosconi 6to8 DSP
- Sound Deadining
Additionally I am going to have them install the 2" Ecohitch for my bike.
fabricator
Musaic Audiophile Design
Your picture of the RTA showing the input is the exact reason you CANNOT swap speakers in a modern car and expect it to sound good. That front stage has a dramatic change in eq points across the entire spectrum. Your RTA shows 20 dB swings from the midrange to high end. The reason the manufactures do this is because of the material they use on their speakers (mainly paper and plastic). They speakers have a harder time reciprocating those frequencies, hence the spike in EQ. This is a master EQ and does not change. You can make very minute changes in the EQ with adjusting Bass, Mid and Treble which we are all used to. The UHFS is made of the same material, just an upgrade to an 8" paper and plastic speaker in the front doors, a 3" paper and plastic mid on the dash bouncing off the glass (reflective surface) and finally a paper and plastic subwoofer, in a thin plastic ABS enclosure. By adding more bass, consumers naturally think it sounds much better. By having more speakers, the consumer automatically thinks its going to sound better. The manufacture wants you to elect for the upgraded system, because it is made of no better materials and they charge you 3 grand to do so.
The second very important part is what does the RTA look like after the speakers. All cars are different. The locations are different. The reflections are different. This is why a DSP is needed. So we can properly align the drivers, and level match the speakers. We need the EQ on the left and right stage to be near identical that way your image does not wonder left and right of center. If you were to install those Flax speakers in the front of the Tesla with no DSP, that peak at the top will become Mount Everest, because now you have a tweeter that can easily play those frequencies.
If you can sit in your drivers seat and close your eyes, and pinpoint where 1 speaker is playing from accurately, your car is not EQ'd properly and you are not getting the most out of your equipment, period. This is fine for most consumers, because most have never experienced a properly tuned car. You should be able to close your eyes and be able to tell exactly how the song was recorded. Who is standing where. The depth of how far away they are standing, and the size of the room they are playing in. When setup correctly, it makes you want to listen to everything you thought you were familiar with, all over again. Audio is not like video. With TV'S, we get to experience the latest and greatest every year. We go into restaurants, movies and a ton of other places to see what a current, great picture looks like. We naturally compare to what we have and thats why we upgrade. With audio, our standards are only set to what we experience. There are probably plenty of guys on this forum that think the UHFS system is the best car system they have ever listened to. To me, its absolutely awful. I could sit them in just a entry level system, with a DSP with a proper tune, and they would never want to listen to the UHFS again. A great analogy would be comparing a UHFS user to a DLP TV. Unless he goes out an experiences what 4k looks like, his expectations are still set at a DLP TV level. He might love the picture, but if he saw 4k coming from a DLP TV, the DLP would become unwatchable. A little food for though when thinking and considering an audio upgrade.
You are quite right, below is another pink noise reading, this time with a calibrated microphone positioned by the headrest (vice taping into the speaker wiring), while some music (Adele for instance) sounds amazing with these speakers installed, other music is off. Playing with the 5 band equalizer that is on the console does nothing to correct the frequencies that are either very high or very low.
fabricator
Musaic Audiophile Design
Do you have the OEM UHFS system...because if not the mid range in your recently replaced Focal Flax speaker would sound horrible. That is a really bad curve.
No, this is the standard system. which is why everything is now a bit off. I expected this for the most part, based on discussions on the forums, but since I couldn't find anyone who provided any measurements, I thought it was worth the try, best case scenario it was perfect.
I finally got the knack of the RTA by the last picture with the microphone, I should have used the averaging feature with a range of 30db for all of the pictures so it would be easier to read.
In the end, I look forward to what the system will sound like with the new Subwoofer, Amps, and DSP. I guess this will give the speakers a bit of time to break in before the shop does the EQ (breaking in is still a thing?).
I finally got the knack of the RTA by the last picture with the microphone, I should have used the averaging feature with a range of 30db for all of the pictures so it would be easier to read.
In the end, I look forward to what the system will sound like with the new Subwoofer, Amps, and DSP. I guess this will give the speakers a bit of time to break in before the shop does the EQ (breaking in is still a thing?).
fabricator
Musaic Audiophile Design
Wow, so if you think that EQ curve sounds good, just wait until it is set up and tuned properly. Must have sounded unbearable before. Breaking in is still a thing, as the speakers properties will change after some playing, which is why I always offer a free retune after a month or so.
Saimaannorppa
Member
Have you been considering Mosconi D-class amps, as some have DSP integrated? More efficient amps with less parts needed. Mosconi one series is an AB-class amp.
I had some (expensive) time at hand to look into further upgrades, and after explaining I'm into improving sound quality rather than quantity was quoted for:
- Mosconi D2 100.4 DSP (4 channels + sub line out, all DSPd)
- Mosconi D2 500.1 (sub)
- Gladen Zero 10 Pro sub
- glass fiber handcrafted sealed box, installed where UHFS sub would be
After a night of intensive googling, this set does seem like proper value.
I won't be changing Light Harmonics main speakers, they feel and sound good build quality.
Any ideas if and what could be done to the tweeters? The standard tweeters sound ok, not annoying but not exciting. Maybe DSP will do magic?
Last edited:
I had considered the D amps, but wanted something with a bit more natural sound. I also want a separate DSP just in case I ever decide to upgrade. I do really like the Focal Flax speakers.
My plan is:
- 2x Focal Flax PS165FX Component Set (woofers only in rear doors)
- 10" Focal P25F Subwoofer
- Mosconi One 130.4 (front and rear speakers) and 130.2 (subwoofer) Amplifiers
- Mosconi 6to8 DSP
I've been google'ing for a month, amazing amount to read up on, and many reviews to sift through. Finding tech specs on the speakers, amps, and such hasn't been to bad, finding tech info on the sound in the model S has been the difficult part.
My plan is:
- 2x Focal Flax PS165FX Component Set (woofers only in rear doors)
- 10" Focal P25F Subwoofer
- Mosconi One 130.4 (front and rear speakers) and 130.2 (subwoofer) Amplifiers
- Mosconi 6to8 DSP
I've been google'ing for a month, amazing amount to read up on, and many reviews to sift through. Finding tech specs on the speakers, amps, and such hasn't been to bad, finding tech info on the sound in the model S has been the difficult part.
Similar threads
