Std Audio Speaker Upgrades - Recommendations?

[drsaab]

@jskenney ..will you need a seperate lithium ion battery for those classes A/B amps? Most of the installs here with A/B amps have an additional battery installed in the trunk. It is hard to sift through but people have posted the RTA of the base sound system on here before. The 2 fronts do sum to have the full range signal but need an input EQ.

@Saimaannorppa .. These can provide a good value. The Helix psix dsp MK2 is a 120x 6 with dsp built in and is "ultra class D" which I don't really know what that means but it is a tiny amp dsp combo with a ton of clean output. You can put any tweeters to replace the factory, and also add mid if you want a 3 way. Audiofrog sells individual component tweets that fit perfect in the Tesla. You should look them up.

@fabricator ... This brings up an interesting question on class A/B vs class D amps in the car. I have heard one of the 40 k installs here and there was significant distortion on the rear speakers when the input song was overboosted, especially in such things as piano frequencies. From asking other audio ppl they said tuning is a big part of that but a class A B amp will enhance any distortion on the signal vs a class D. Is that the reason for the distortion?

 

[drsaab]

Here is the factory signal, similar to what you got.

 

[fabricator]

@jskenney ..will you need a seperate lithium ion battery for those classes A/B amps? Most of the installs here with A/B amps have an additional battery installed in the trunk. It is hard to sift through but people have posted the RTA of the base sound system on here before. The 2 fronts do sum to have the full range signal but need an input EQ.

@Saimaannorppa .. These can provide a good value. The Helix psix dsp MK2 is a 120x 6 with dsp built in and is "ultra class D" which I don't really know what that means but it is a tiny amp dsp combo with a ton of clean output. You can put any tweeters to replace the factory, and also add mid if you want a 3 way. Audiofrog sells individual component tweets that fit perfect in the Tesla. You should look them up.

@fabricator ... This brings up an interesting question on class A/B vs class D amps in the car. I have heard one of the 40 k installs here and there was significant distortion on the rear speakers when the input song was overboosted, especially in such things as piano frequencies. From asking other audio ppl they said tuning is a big part of that but a class A B amp will enhance any distortion on the signal vs a class D. Is that the reason for the distortion?

What do you mean by "when the input song was overboosted" ? I am not sure what that means. I would also like to know what preset, what source, what track, and is it compressed? How are you locking into the rear? When I tune the rears, they are time delayed about 8ms away from the front and are hi-passed at about 150hz. This is to push the front stage further forward (hood area). Most people dont even think the rears are playing based on how its tuned. They also play at a much lower level. So my question is, how are you hearing the rears distort. Based on level alone, they should never distort. Unless you are listening to a song on the wrong preset for the source.

 

[drsaab]

What do you mean by "when the input song was overboosted" ? I am not sure what that means. I would also like to know what preset, what source, what track, and is it compressed? How are you locking into the rear? When I tune the rears, they are time delayed about 8ms away from the front and are hi-passed at about 150hz. This is to push the front stage further forward (hood area). Most people dont even think the rears are playing based on how its tuned. They also play at a much lower level. So my question is, how are you hearing the rears distort. Based on level alone, they should never distort. Unless you are listening to a song on the wrong preset for the source.

By "overboosted" I mean the track may have some frequencies where the track has a peak which may be at a much higher DB than normal. I am not sure if that would be clipping in the track itself or distortion in the track. The preset was #1 and was played through the Tesla USB and the track was a 320kbs MP3 file. It is an Indian song so I can send you the track in mp3. I also have the FLAC version now direct from the CD but I have not heard that version to see how it plays in the car. I can email both versions if you send me your email. We were not locking into the rear but heard the distortion only from the rears and only on this particular track. It would be awesome if you can diagnose this since based on the rear fill settings and level, I agree it would not normally be that way.

For a song that may have "similar" Piano beats in the beginning would be Beautiful Girl from INXS in the first 40 sec of the track, but again I have not heard this song in the car to see if it has the same issues.

With your expertise on the Tesla audio, would those couple Mosconi amps listed need an additional or replacement of the stock battery? Or in other words... what watts can one install in a Telsa with a A/B amp safely on the stock battery?

 

[Saimaannorppa]

@drsaab Thanks for suggestion, Helix has amazing review on site where I also made research for Mosconi D2. Both are great, wonder products of few past years.

As I am not planning to change channel setup for now, Mosconi provides enough channels. I want to keep everything easily returnable to stock, and 3 way front speakers require modifications, so no go at least for now. I think I'm going to see if stock tweeters are still acceptable after DSP. I'll have pros do the install, cross overs and tuning.

Pricing wise, I get both Mosconis for more than 30% less than the Helix alone, and D2 500.1 has enough power for a high quality sub.

@jskenney I was also quoted for AB-class Mosconi first, but haggled same total price but upgrade to D-class. I don't believe I will be able to hear AB or D difference with the equipment I will have. But I've been wrong before, I did not believe I can hear difference of speaker cables or bi-amping, and certainly did not believe I can hear difference of painting materials in my listening room (please tell me how to unpaint open pore wood...). But this time it's different, yeah right.

 

[jskenney]

@Saimaannorppa , I had been planning to go with a D Class amp, specifically the JL Audio HD900/5, before the switch to the Mosconi AB. The JL had the best specifications of the D class amps I had reviewed and is cheaper than the Mosconi setup I am currently planning on.

 

[fabricator]

By "overboosted" I mean the track may have some frequencies where the track has a peak which may be at a much higher DB than normal. I am not sure if that would be clipping in the track itself or distortion in the track. The preset was #1 and was played through the Tesla USB and the track was a 320kbs MP3 file. It is an Indian song so I can send you the track in mp3. I also have the FLAC version now direct from the CD but I have not heard that version to see how it plays in the car. I can email both versions if you send me your email. We were not locking into the rear but heard the distortion only from the rears and only on this particular track. It would be awesome if you can diagnose this since based on the rear fill settings and level, I agree it would not normally be that way.

For a song that may have "similar" Piano beats in the beginning would be Beautiful Girl from INXS in the first 40 sec of the track, but again I have not heard this song in the car to see if it has the same issues.

With your expertise on the Tesla audio, would those couple Mosconi amps listed need an additional or replacement of the stock battery? Or in other words... what watts can one install in a Telsa with a A/B amp safely on the stock battery?

So in this system, listening through the Tesla radio would be the equivalent of watching a DVD (non bluray on a 4k system). You were not even getting 50% of the total quality experience the equipment has to offer. The factory radio has a lot of inputs that have to be summed and level matched. The components and processor in the factory equipment is budget and does not have a great DAC. Some songs will sound great, others will get exposed. I would like your opinion on the same track on the AMAS.

As for the amplifiers, I would put in a fused rating of 120A of amplifiers until I would add at least 1 lithium ion battery in place as supplemental support.

 

[drsaab]

So in this system, listening through the Tesla radio would be the equivalent of watching a DVD (non bluray on a 4k system). You were not even getting 50% of the total quality experience the equipment has to offer. The factory radio has a lot of inputs that have to be summed and level matched. The components and processor in the factory equipment is budget and does not have a great DAC. Some songs will sound great, others will get exposed. I would like your opinion on the same track on the AMAS.

As for the amplifiers, I would put in a fused rating of 120A of amplifiers until I would add at least 1 lithium ion battery in place as supplemental support.

Yes, I think that is a good plan to check it through the astell and amas input.

Sorry to go Off topic on this thread, but your tremendous knowledge would prob benefit the other installs here as well.

1. I do not have a mosconi, but do have a DSP with toslink optical input, so I think I could hook an AMAS 2 into it correct?


Can you give some more technical details on the AMAS 2.

2. What codec is it sending? The mosconi website just says A2DP.

3. From what I understand, it is AptX for astell / kern and Android etc but for Iphone would it be AAC?

4. The AptX will be almost CD quality and AAC is more like 320k mp3?

The Factory Tesla system BT does AAC for iphone but only SBC for android currently, and then your using the high level inputs and Tesla DAC so I see how that is not as ideal as the Amas 2.

The new Android Oreo operating system on the google pixel 2 supports LDAC Bluetooth.

5. Are you aware if the AMAS 2 does as well or any updates planned from mosconi? That would seem to be the best BT codec at this time I believe. I think Sony is the only one with that at this time.

6. Also would a direct USB to optical input to the DSP be superior to Amas 2 or similar?

 

[fabricator]

Apt X HD can far surpass cd quality. CD Quality is 16 bit, 44kHz. Apt-x HD can transfer at minimum 24bit /48kHz. With AMAS 2 we can play DSD, 32bit , 384kHz files which are far superior resolution to 16 bit / 44kHZ. With my iPhone, I transfer my hi-res files to apple lossless AAC. So I can stream AAC to the AMAS 2 from my iPhone. Same thing goes for android. As long as you have the track on your phone, it will sample it. It is a straight digital connection into the processor, which gives you a ton of clean, upclipped signal. You can use AMAS 2 on anything with a digital input. You just have to have a separate tune for that preset, since it is a different source.

But like I stated before....in a demo like the hi end system you heard, playing files through the Tesla system and not AMAS2 is like watching a regular DVD on a very high end 4k tv and judging the picture quality.