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Discussion in 'Tesla' started by malcolm, Jan 18, 2008.
Stealth Cabbage « Tesla Founders Blog
Stable door locked.
Horse in next county.
I expected this to happen.
I think it's best for Martin to distance himself from Tesla Motors, the company, as much as possible. Nothing good can come from postings like the one that was removed.
Sigh . . .
I thought that might happen. But I also though Martin might have taken it down before he got a "strong request from Tesla's management". Once the comments started rolling in, the post took on a life of it's own.
To be saved for future reference
Thanks to the Google cache:
Stealth Bloodbath « Tesla Founders Blog
Perhaps "we" should also start making copies of the Tesla blogs. It makes great material for a book in, say, 5 years.
All I see is the edited page in that link, not the original. I missed the original post and would like to see it.
Here's the correct link for those interested for a look:
It seems clear that Tesla does not want that content to be shown, and Martin has tried to comply. I think it is best if we don't get in their way by pointing people to a leftover copy.
Tesla and/or Martin may want to contact Google about getting it flushed from their cache.
I think this is a bad idea.
Why do we care what "Tesla" does or does not want shown? This forum is not supposed to be an arm of Tesla Motors. One of its strengths has been that we could offer views not filtered through Tesla's corporate website -- their blogs and owners forum.
Martin wrote in his blog:
"This blog entry has been taken down at the strong request of Tesla’s management. "..."it was explained to me that Tesla and its financial backer(s) can spend far more than I can on a lawsuit…"
I removed the link not because of what Tesla may have said, but rather because I think Martin is trying to stay out of trouble, and we weren't helping him by pointing more people to content he has tried to remove.
I wasn't happy when Tesla found a way to keep their site from archiving on archive.org, and I don't like to see history rewritten, but I think this is a case where we need to try to do the right thing here to keep Martin & Tesla from wasting effort pointing fingers at each other.
Do we really want to keep "pouring lemon juice" on this particular wound?
Can we just move on?
Barely resisting the urge to be explicit, I can name a few grand mistakes that have been made in the past century. Thanks to keeping those wounds open perhaps those mistakes will not be repeated.
I say let other companies learn from Tesla's mistake. Rewriting history has never been a solution.
PS: I won't mention how to find the 100+ "stealth bloodbath" copies (including all names!) that are still floating around on the net.
dsacks (site owner), do you have any opinion on this?
Sorry about that then, I didn't realize it would be that sensitive of a subject since quite frankly a quick search on Google will easily find that Google Cache link; things aren't easily erased on the internet.
We can just move on. Hopefully we'll see more Roadsters coming out of the factory soon.
TEG, just skimed this but have not red martins post on tesla founders before it was taken down, nor have I red it on google. I am out of the country so I can only devote so much time to monitor this site.
I do want to say that this site is by no means a supporter of Tesla Motors but rather a place to discuss tesla motors. Anything is welcome, opinions, feeling etc, as long as tesla motors does not have a legal right to prevent it.
Whether tesla motors is being overly zealous about preventing discussion, I cannot comment because I have not had time to follow the recent events closely enough.
Thanks, dsacks. Hopefully this was just a one time thing. If there ever is a "next time" I think I will just leave things alone.
If Tesla Motors is stupid enough to go after Martin, THE founder as far as I'm concerned, they may never recover from that PR miscalculation. On another note, on Martin's blog, I asked him if he signed a non-compete agreement and he said he did not. I hope he goes into the EV world and invents the iPod of EVs and kicks the crap out of what results of Tesla Motors.
And on the same topic, I do not believe Martin said anything such that it would subject him to a lawsuit. No defamation, as it was all opinion which is perfectly legal. I didn't read the text, but I don't think Tesla has much stand on.
If Tesla Motors has 4 running blogs then what role does Tesla Motors Club play? I say we are the place to have uncensored, open and honest discussion on the Company's products and actions. A place to report and opine on all things Tesla and Tesla related. We can hate the idea of a REEV and love the new paint colors. We can drool over the new 0-60 times and hate what Tesla did to Martin. We can even like the new Karma.
Tesla will only release news that will put them in a good light (Daryl's blog and comments not withstanding) and The Truth About Cars is there to keep them honest by tearing them apart. Martin is out there keeping alive his Passion reminding everyone that he was the true originator of the Tesla concept.
I think the thing that separates us collectively is we do it all without a corporate agenda or personal bias.
As to this thread, I think TEG was too quick on the draw. Legally (and I'm not a lawyer) Martin acted in good faith by removing the blog at Tesla's request (their first openly GMish move). Is he now required to play "whack a mole" all over cyberspace asking every Web Company, surfer and Blogger to clear their hard drives? Not practical and not our place to get involved.
Tesla’s site is only sparingly talking about Martin’s removal and the layoffs (with blogs being edited). Martin’s site goes into considerable depth on both (also now edited). We should be an unaffected place to report and comment on both sides.
I see Tesla Motors Club, as the place historians will go to write the books on Tesla. We are friendly to the company but not entrenched. Here we can challenge without flaming so our opinions have an important place in history too. We all know Tesla’s site is being incrementally rewritten not only to update “data” but also to change history. This unedited site has the true chronology, the highs, the lows, links to worldwide press, and open talks about relevant competition. Censoring Tesla news and the places to find it is the worst thing we can do in telling the True Tesla Story*
This might be true, but it's not worth the risk. A miscalculation here could send him to financial ruin.
VFX I agree 100%
Martin made it quite clear in his retraction that he was only doing it because he felt forced to under threat of lawsuit and that he still felt it was not in violation to his agreement. This tells me that he only needed to remove it from his site, not from history.
There was one very important fact revealed in one of Martin's responses to a comment on that blog. That is the fact that he was removed from Tesla Motors by one person alone. That one person sold preferred stock and bought common stock so as to be able to outvote Martins supporters and have him removed. This may be a legal move but it is certainly underhanded and can in no way be claimed to be in the best interest of the company!
Based on this I have serious questions about Tesla Motors managements motives and long term commitment to anything, other then getting the Roadster in customers hands. I have no doubts that the Roadster will start delivery soon.