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Still Amazed at how bad regular AP/ACC is after 5 months

Boggles my mind how since 4.21.3, the last of the good ACC/AP updates IMHO, they can't sort out some of the most basic/fundamental operations that any other manufacture does with ease using cameras/radar.

Absurd how the car launches itself upward to 20mph on the bumper of the car in front from a stop, then, it proceeds to slow acceleration way down to less than 1mph per second approx., as the car ahead is now a 100m gap ahead and people behind you are wondering WTF is wrong with this car....then only for it to finally start catching/closing the gap to the car ahead at higher speeds, to now follow way too closely for my comfort off the bumper ahead...only to then jam on the brakes and not figure out how to slow down at a reasonable sensible smooth rate to close the gap and stop.

Both my other two cars with radar/cameras, VW/BMW do this reliable, smoothly and without fail with 3-4yr old technology.

Clearly vision is not good enough, plus their developers/control of how the car can detect distance, accelerating/slowing on basic assumptions is astounding.

4.21.3 was the last good update where the car did a good job of starting from a stop following and keeping a reasonable distance, and slowing pretty smooth to a stop, or closing a distance. Ever since that time, been nothing but beyond annoying, I end up driving the car 90% of the time now, or giving it some pedal to make it get going to close a gap, or spin the cruise control speed down fast to make it slow so it uses regen and not brake pads like it should.

FSD Betas wasn't any better....bailed on that hack of a program and FSD ripoff cost every month.

I don't get it.....flame on!!!

As always, hoping for better results in future releases to live up to the promises...haha...
 

glide

Active Member
Jun 6, 2018
4,733
6,569
USA
Boggles my mind how since 4.21.3, the last of the good ACC/AP updates IMHO, they can't sort out some of the most basic/fundamental operations that any other manufacture does with ease using cameras/radar.

Absurd how the car launches itself upward to 20mph on the bumper of the car in front from a stop, then, it proceeds to slow acceleration way down to less than 1mph per second approx., as the car ahead is now a 100m gap ahead and people behind you are wondering WTF is wrong with this car....then only for it to finally start catching/closing the gap to the car ahead at higher speeds, to now follow way too closely for my comfort off the bumper ahead...only to then jam on the brakes and not figure out how to slow down at a reasonable sensible smooth rate to close the gap and stop.

Both my other two cars with radar/cameras, VW/BMW do this reliable, smoothly and without fail with 3-4yr old technology.

Clearly vision is not good enough, plus their developers/control of how the car can detect distance, accelerating/slowing on basic assumptions is astounding.

4.21.3 was the last good update where the car did a good job of starting from a stop following and keeping a reasonable distance, and slowing pretty smooth to a stop, or closing a distance. Ever since that time, been nothing but beyond annoying, I end up driving the car 90% of the time now, or giving it some pedal to make it get going to close a gap, or spin the cruise control speed down fast to make it slow so it uses regen and not brake pads like it should.

FSD Betas wasn't any better....bailed on that hack of a program and FSD ripoff cost every month.

I don't get it.....flame on!!!

As always, hoping for better results in future releases to live up to the promises...haha...
Vision only is a joke.

Just like FSD.

My AP1 Autopilot was, by far, the most reliable system in all of my Teslas.
 

raptor5244

Active Member
May 10, 2019
1,562
1,241
Florida
Boggles my mind how since 4.21.3, the last of the good ACC/AP updates IMHO, they can't sort out some of the most basic/fundamental operations that any other manufacture does with ease using cameras/radar.

Absurd how the car launches itself upward to 20mph on the bumper of the car in front from a stop, then, it proceeds to slow acceleration way down to less than 1mph per second approx., as the car ahead is now a 100m gap ahead and people behind you are wondering WTF is wrong with this car....then only for it to finally start catching/closing the gap to the car ahead at higher speeds, to now follow way too closely for my comfort off the bumper ahead...only to then jam on the brakes and not figure out how to slow down at a reasonable sensible smooth rate to close the gap and stop.

Both my other two cars with radar/cameras, VW/BMW do this reliable, smoothly and without fail with 3-4yr old technology.

Clearly vision is not good enough, plus their developers/control of how the car can detect distance, accelerating/slowing on basic assumptions is astounding.

4.21.3 was the last good update where the car did a good job of starting from a stop following and keeping a reasonable distance, and slowing pretty smooth to a stop, or closing a distance. Ever since that time, been nothing but beyond annoying, I end up driving the car 90% of the time now, or giving it some pedal to make it get going to close a gap, or spin the cruise control speed down fast to make it slow so it uses regen and not brake pads like it should.

FSD Betas wasn't any better....bailed on that hack of a program and FSD ripoff cost every month.

I don't get it.....flame on!!!

As always, hoping for better results in future releases to live up to the promises...haha...
If I turn AP on with my family in the car, it only takes about a minute before they start yelling at me to turn it off since it annoys them. :oops: The reality is this AI system has to drive "as good or better" than the driver before people will really like and use it. Vision only may not get it done. Us human drivers obviously do a pretty good job at calculating all the physics in our head to drive as smooth as we do. ;)
 

raptor5244

Active Member
May 10, 2019
1,562
1,241
Florida
That’s a ridiculous statement. Time travel is the best solution to a lot of problems as well. Just really hard to figure it out.

The best practical solution to semi-autonomous driving, today, involves radars.
Agreed. Why limit the solution to vision only? If airline pilots relied on vision only there would be a lot more plane crashes.
 

S4WRXTTCS

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
6,522
7,927
Snohomish, WA
My experience with TACC/AP was it radar+vision steadily got better, and the best version was the Safety Score version.

That got me the FSD Beta, and that brought the horrible Tesla Vision.

On my performance Model 3 the acceleration during stop and go traffic was crazy. Out of desperation I used chill mode to see if that would calm it down. It seemed to, but then traffic wasn't as bad so who knows.

It does seem to be getting better. I'll take my first long trip with 10.9 fairly soon so I'll be able to see if it is good.

Of course the single stack V11 will likely ruin it.
 

novox77

Active Member
Nov 25, 2017
2,559
5,497
NH, MA
I think AP performance peaked around November 2019. This was way before the transition to vision. But in early 2020, firmware updates started causing AP to phantom brake a LOT more on local roads (yes I know it's technically not designed or optimized for that), and it started to recenter hard when onramps form a wide lane as it merges into the highway.

For most of 2020, AP struggled with issues. I think a lot of attention was diverted from AP during this time to focus on the "rewrite" that ultimately became the FSD beta code.
 
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You could be forgiven for not being up to speed on your theoretical physics. Time travel is theoretically possible. Exactly the same as vision-only AP. Yet neither exist today.

It’s an absolutely accurate comparison.
except my Subaru has vision only adaptive cruise that works perfectly, so that does exist. Just not on a Tesla.
 
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S4WRXTTCS

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
6,522
7,927
Snohomish, WA
except my Subaru has vision only adaptive cruise that works perfectly, so that does exist. Just not on a Tesla.

What I thought was kinda funny was a couple weekends ago I took my Jeep down to Portland.

It felt really weird because it was totally the wrong vehicle for a 400+ mile roundtrip journey.

The adaptive cruise control didn't phantom brake at all during the entire journey, but it was still a failure in that the vehicle would really rev the engine anytime there was an opening. It was way too aggressive.

Tesla Vision at least isn't so aggressive in filling the hole, but it loves to phantom brake.

So the only way to win is to not play.
 
Last edited:
What I thought was kinda funny was a couple weekends ago I took my Jeep down to Portland.

It felt really weird because it was totally the wrong vehicle for a 400+ mile roundtrip journey.

The adaptive cruise control didn't phantom brake at all during the entire journey, but it was still a failure in that the vehicle would really rev the engine anytime there was an opening. It was way too aggressive.

Tesla Vision at least isn't so aggressive in filling the hole, but it loves to phantom brake.

So the only way to win is to not play.
I was actually thinking the reverse earlier today - I was using TACC following a car. Even though I have the following distance set to 7 the car was still following too close and would also seem to be a bit too sensitive to the following distance. every so often I could feel it lurch forward bit or brake. Part of the problem may just be the amount of torque the Tesla has - in any other car you wouldn't be able to feel it but with a Tesla you know it the instant it happens.
 
Agreed, however.. I love my Tesla and how it functions! I killed my FSD beta subscription, it certainly isn't what it should be

I prefer, non-beta - the hyper-nags of the beta are just terrible after it gets old (at the start, it's a delight to see where things are!)

I've learned to simply use AP where it works, and I've learned how it thinks. So I drive always, unless on a smooth lane-boundaried drive .. and I must control the car at shadows, or things come up that I know makes the AP work badly

Just about every stop or light, I smoothly take back control as well

It'll get better, of course.. but for now the joy of driving Tesla is a smooth combo of manual control and decent AP when the circumstances are favorable
 
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Boggles my mind how since 4.21.3, the last of the good ACC/AP updates IMHO, they can't sort out some of the most basic/fundamental operations that any other manufacture does with ease using cameras/radar.

Absurd how the car launches itself upward to 20mph on the bumper of the car in front from a stop, then, it proceeds to slow acceleration way down to less than 1mph per second approx., as the car ahead is now a 100m gap ahead and people behind you are wondering WTF is wrong with this car....then only for it to finally start catching/closing the gap to the car ahead at higher speeds, to now follow way too closely for my comfort off the bumper ahead...only to then jam on the brakes and not figure out how to slow down at a reasonable sensible smooth rate to close the gap and stop.

Both my other two cars with radar/cameras, VW/BMW do this reliable, smoothly and without fail with 3-4yr old technology.

Clearly vision is not good enough, plus their developers/control of how the car can detect distance, accelerating/slowing on basic assumptions is astounding.

4.21.3 was the last good update where the car did a good job of starting from a stop following and keeping a reasonable distance, and slowing pretty smooth to a stop, or closing a distance. Ever since that time, been nothing but beyond annoying, I end up driving the car 90% of the time now, or giving it some pedal to make it get going to close a gap, or spin the cruise control speed down fast to make it slow so it uses regen and not brake pads like it should.

FSD Betas wasn't any better....bailed on that hack of a program and FSD ripoff cost every month.

I don't get it.....flame on!!!

As always, hoping for better results in future releases to live up to the promises...haha...
I have the exact same behavior on my 2019 M3P, with radar. It was perfect with consistent following distance, then completely broken in a software update. I cannot use TACC at all anymore with that slow acceleration. I find the stopping is fine, only the huge gap in front is my problem, provoking me and drivers behind me.
 
My car had EAP, then "FSD" for the new computer, then FSD Beta. And overall it drives great. I don't know why it's (apparently) different from many others, but mine is like the Youtube clips where you get maybe one override per drive.

Maybe it's something in how my options are set, but please trust me: freeways, highways and city streets, it just works. I do adjust speed with the scroll wheel, and occasionally tap the giddy-up pedal, no worries. Those of us in that demographic don't hang out in the complaint department. I do suspect the "half-brain" options like TACC and base Autopilot have their own problems. I never use them.
 
Last edited:

diamond.g

Active Member
Nov 5, 2015
2,509
1,462
Moyock, NC
except my Subaru has vision only adaptive cruise that works perfectly, so that does exist. Just not on a Tesla.

What I thought was kinda funny was a couple weekends ago I took my Jeep down to Portland.

It felt really weird because it was totally the wrong vehicle for a 400+ mile roundtrip journey.

The adaptive cruise control didn't phantom brake at all during the entire journey, but it was still a failure in that the vehicle would really rev the engine anytime there was an opening. It was way too aggressive.

Tesla Vision at least isn't so aggressive in filling the hole, but it loves to phantom brake.

So the only way to win is to not play.
I think AP has gotten "worse" since all the media attention about the car running into perpendicular traffic (and running into emergency vehicles or really any car/thing that "suddenly" appears in the vehicles path). Now the cars are "overly cautious" attempting to stop for things it used to happily ignore (back in 2018).
 

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