Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Still baffled by range issue

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
So am I reading your graph wrong? Does is not say you started with 67% battery and ended with 58%? Why did you say you started at 80%?

222wh/m is very efficient already. Please use your HVAC, set it to 73 or 74. Stop baking yourself.
Hot weather should not affect range except you using your HVAC. Now cold weather... be prepared for that one. If you think your range in the SR is bad now...

That's why I would never buy the SR version.
 
I think the simplest explanation is you stopped somewhere between when it was at 80% and 58%. I won't bore you with math, but you have about 2.3kWh "missing" from your otherwise excellent driving efficiency, which must've come from being parked. I could see this being about 7-8h of Sentry usage (did you park at work and have Sentry on or something?), more time if left somewhere where it can sleep, or perhaps far less time if you pre-cooled the cabin with the app and/or have Cabin Overheat Protection enabled. There's lots of ways to lose power while not driving - your driving numbers are great.

@Gasaraki you're reading it right, it's just an example he's been driving more efficiently than expected for at least one trip (his Wh/mi shows this too).
 
I love my car (SR+) and I have read the manual. Please don't flame me. I have posted elsewhere, but I am still concerned by range. One bit of background. I got it in April, and actually it already had 600 miles on it when I got it. (It was a demonstrator at the dealer and yes, there was a discount).

I have yet to see rated range. I've had other people say, "Well, you never did in your ICE car either..." Actually, I did. I had a Honda Accord and routinely saw rated range.

I'd just like someone to give me an assurance that what I am seeing is typical and that there's nothing wrong with my car. Here is an example today and I provided photos below. I went for a brief drive this morning. As you can see, the total round trip was 45.9 miles. I used 22% of my power (started at 80%). As you can see from the energy graph, I consistently stayed above the gray line---so I thought I was doing an efficient job.

Now it was hot. In the eighties when I left the house and 91 when I got home. I have seen totally contradictory posts on this. Some people actually contend warm weather IMPROVES range. Others say it has some impact. I was running only minimal air conditioning, so much so that I was burning up.

22% of 240 should be 54. I got 45.9. Not a big difference, but hey, it's eight miles. Yesterday on a longer trip I actually did a bit worse.

If you can tell me this is totally in the right ballpark, I'm fine with it. Maybe truth be known, hot weather DOES have a significant impact on range (I know cold does). Just can someone tell me what you think?

Many thanks,
phil in Chicago



View attachment 560458View attachment 560461

best advice I can give you Drive the car as you normally would turn on the air conditioning be comfortable charge it up as much as you need to to get to your destination switch to miles and enjoy the ride Don't overthink it.
 
So am I reading your graph wrong? Does is not say you started with 67% battery and ended with 58%? Why did you say you started at 80%?

222wh/m is very efficient already. Please use your HVAC, set it to 73 or 74. Stop baking yourself.
Hot weather should not affect range except you using your HVAC. Now cold weather... be prepared for that one. If you think your range in the SR is bad now...

That's why I would never buy the SR version.

you are quite correct. I stopped and put in a destination, so the range graph only shows that
Portion of the trip.
Many thanks!
 
I think the simplest explanation is you stopped somewhere between when it was at 80% and 58%. I won't bore you with math, but you have about 2.3kWh "missing" from your otherwise excellent driving efficiency, which must've come from being parked. I could see this being about 7-8h of Sentry usage (did you park at work and have Sentry on or something?), more time if left somewhere where it can sleep, or perhaps far less time if you pre-cooled the cabin with the app and/or have Cabin Overheat Protection enabled. There's lots of ways to lose power while not driving - your driving numbers are great.

@Gasaraki you're reading it right, it's just an example he's been driving more efficiently than expected for at least one trip (his Wh/mi shows this too).

Thanks very much. I don’t use Sentry mode but I do try to pre-cool the cabin and I assume I have overheat protection on (I’ve never looked, where do I find that?). Is it a big factor and should I not be using it? Sounds like it may be important!
 
Every time someone comments about apologizing to ICE car owners, I like to flip things around in my head and imagine if EVs were the norm and someone was trying to introduce ICE cars as a new technology. What would people say?

-- "You have to drive to a special place and fill a 'tank' with dangerous flammable fuel???"
-- "You can't just leave the car to refuel in your garage overnight? Are they kidding?"
-- "ok, I see you get maybe 150 miles more between refueling, but I hardly EVER drive more than 100 miles in a day so who cares?"
-- "That ICE engine thing has so many moving parts it must break down so often."
-- "Wait, you have to take it to a service center and have special lubricants changed several times a year? Seriously?"
-- "My wife tried one and HATES that the heating system takes like 10 minutes before it can warm the car on a cold day!"
-- "Man, I tried one and you should hear the NOISE that damn ICE engine makes!"
-- "It has a funny pipe sticking out the back of the car where nasty poisonous gases come out .. you could smell them all down the road!"
-- "It can't slow down unless you use the brake pedal, its going to wear out the brakes so much faster!"
-- "The engine thing takes up so much room there is no room left in the frunk!"

:)
 
Thanks very much. I don’t use Sentry mode but I do try to pre-cool the cabin and I assume I have overheat protection on (I’ve never looked, where do I find that?). Is it a big factor and should I not be using it? Sounds like it may be important!

Ok, most of the unexpected usage is probably pre-cooling and overheat protection then. It's on by default usually. This is sort of good news - at least the energy is doing something useful!

Cabin Overheat Protection is not really important but it can certainly help get the car cooler faster at the expense of energy. You can however set it to "fan only" which uses less power, but of course it's not as cool either. This is what I have it set to. It only operates for a few hours after leaving the vehicle anyways.

I can't remember exactly where it is but the manual should mention it? It's called Cabin Overheat Protection and has three settings (AC/Fan/Off). Might be under safety stuff.
 
Another tip is not to use the distance setting. Use the energy display setting. People on this forum get obsessed with the number next to the battery but that number is not remotely accurate. It's like the distance numbers in ICE cars, those are not remotely accurate either. Once you drive your car for awhile, you'll know how much battery it usually takes to get from A to B, like your home to your work.

Pretend your battery is your gas tank storing energy. The fuel gauge doesn't show you your fuel in miles left.
 
Every time someone comments about apologizing to ICE car owners, I like to flip things around in my head and imagine if EVs were the norm and someone was trying to introduce ICE cars as a new technology. What would people say?

-- "You have to drive to a special place and fill a 'tank' with dangerous flammable fuel???"
-- "You can't just leave the car to refuel in your garage overnight? Are they kidding?"
-- "ok, I see you get maybe 150 miles more between refueling, but I hardly EVER drive more than 100 miles in a day so who cares?"
-- "That ICE engine thing has so many moving parts it must break down so often."
-- "Wait, you have to take it to a service center and have special lubricants changed several times a year? Seriously?"
-- "My wife tried one and HATES that the heating system takes like 10 minutes before it can warm the car on a cold day!"
-- "Man, I tried one and you should hear the NOISE that damn ICE engine makes!"
-- "It has a funny pipe sticking out the back of the car where nasty poisonous gases come out .. you could smell them all down the road!"
-- "It can't slow down unless you use the brake pedal, its going to wear out the brakes so much faster!"
-- "The engine thing takes up so much room there is no room left in the frunk!"

:)

These are all wonderful! Thank you for all of them. I especially like, "It can't slow down unless you use the brake pedal?" These are great!
 
Another tip is not to use the distance setting. Use the energy display setting. People on this forum get obsessed with the number next to the battery but that number is not remotely accurate. It's like the distance numbers in ICE cars, those are not remotely accurate either. Once you drive your car for awhile, you'll know how much battery it usually takes to get from A to B, like your home to your work.

Pretend your battery is your gas tank storing energy. The fuel gauge doesn't show you your fuel in miles left.

This is somewhat factually incorrect I've been finding, but it took a while for it to click for me.

How much range you get out of 1% changes over the life of your car, because the amount of energy available in 1% changes. But rated range more or less is equivalent to a unit of energy. If you know a trip takes 30 rated miles (given weather etc.), then it should take 30 rated miles even after significant degradation. However the percent needed will change over time, giving an illusion of decreased efficiency and/or unexpected higher energy usage. Having less rated miles available is far more representative of reality.

To my understanding, some other EVs have a percentage display that actually doesn't go to 100% once you have degradation. These would be better IMO, or at least more honest.

That said, some people like the percent display because it is similar to an ICE gas gauge like you mentioned. That's entirely fine. I use percent myself most of the time because of this. But I am also aware that the percent sort of lies to me, while rated range actually represents how much energy my pack has.

Basically, use whatever display makes you happier. Both versions lie in different ways. Which is "better" is your own value judgement.
 
This is somewhat factually incorrect I've been finding, but it took a while for it to click for me.

How much range you get out of 1% changes over the life of your car, because the amount of energy available in 1% changes. But rated range more or less is equivalent to a unit of energy. If you know a trip takes 30 rated miles (given weather etc.), then it should take 30 rated miles even after significant degradation. However the percent needed will change over time, giving an illusion of decreased efficiency and/or unexpected higher energy usage. Having less rated miles available is far more representative of reality.

To my understanding, some other EVs have a percentage display that actually doesn't go to 100% once you have degradation. These would be better IMO, or at least more honest.

That said, some people like the percent display because it is similar to an ICE gas gauge like you mentioned. That's entirely fine. I use percent myself most of the time because of this. But I am also aware that the percent sort of lies to me, while rated range actually represents how much energy my pack has.

Basically, use whatever display makes you happier. Both versions lie in different ways. Which is "better" is your own value judgement.


Thank you. And I just want everyone on this thread to know how much I appreciate your collegiality and helpfulness. I've encountered some really negative stuff in the past which really took me aback. There are a few die hard believers out there who react strongly to anything they believe is any kind of assault on the temple of electricity. And I don't mean to do ever do that. I am amazed by Tesla and what the company has done in such a short period of time. there is just a lot I don't understand.

Many thanks!
 
But I am also aware that the percent sort of lies to me, while rated range actually represents how much energy my pack has.

How? How does the car know how you drive? The car can show me 300 miles but if i'm going 100MPH, i'm not getting 300 miles.

That's why when people say that I drove 50 miles but the battery use was "60 miles". OK... umm that "60 miles" battery use doesn't mean anything. Was your A/C on? Was the heat on? Was it raining? Was it snowing? Was it windy? Do you have music on? Are your tires pumped up? etc etc.

Maybe what they should be telling us is the watt hours left. Like full would be 72.5Kwh and as the battery degrades that number would drop. And I'll know when going to work with music and AC on, i should use 30Kwh etc.
 
How? How does the car know how you drive? The car can show me 300 miles but if i'm going 100MPH, i'm not getting 300 miles.

That's why when people say that I drove 50 miles but the battery use was "60 miles". OK... umm that "60 miles" battery use doesn't mean anything. Was your A/C on? Was the heat on? Was it raining? Was it snowing? Was it windy? Do you have music on? Are your tires pumped up? etc etc.

Maybe what they should be telling us is the watt hours left. Like full would be 72.5Kwh and as the battery degrades that number would drop. And I'll know when going to work with music and AC on, i should use 30Kwh etc.

Apologies, I left out technical details in the interest of simplicity. I will clarify. Keep in mind I am talking about the miles displayed by the battery icon (on screen or in app), not the energy graphs.

Rated miles are a unit of energy, not distance. I make this assertion because as you point out, you can go through rated miles faster or slower based on various factors. And indeed, the rated miles are based on the EPA rating (or local equivalent group) for the number of miles expected from the given battery capacity (which is a measurement of energy). That is, a "rated mile" is the energy required to go one mile in the testing conditions. So rated miles are a unit of energy.

If you have 30% energy degradation and charge to "100%", display as percent will show 100% but displaying miles will be more like 217mi (for an LR AWD that started that 310mi). And truly, that means a 100% charge will not bring you as far as it used to. This is reflected in the range display (of about 217 rated miles capacity), but not in the percent display (which merely says 100%).

So in a way, showing rated miles left is showing remaining watt-hours left, just on a different scale. Because a rated mile is a certain number of Wh. It is just contextualized to distance in rated conditions, which is a lot more meaningful to the average person.

I hope that clarifies what I was trying to say without confusing things.
 
To my understanding, some other EVs have a percentage display that actually doesn't go to 100% once you have degradation. These would be better IMO, or at least more honest.

This is exactly my feeling when people tell me to put my display in %.

A % today is different to a % last year / in a few years. The "miles" display reflects the real energy available.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rocky_H
Thanks to all for these very informative replies. I do truly appreciate it. I think the heat pump in the Model Y is probably a very big solution. Driving my car and roasting to cut down on battery consumption does not strike me as a blow to fossil fuel use. My friends in gasoline powered cars would laugh at that, and rightfully so. For EV's to truly be on a par with ICE vehicles in all respects, traditional comforts will need to be equal.

Many thanks everyone


10,700+ miles in my SR+ and I've had unlimited range anywhere I've gone. My 100% shows about 228 on average (and I only charge to 90% which is around 200) but I drive fast and use AC. I can achieve more range by driving conservative.

The EPA range is old folks driving style. Make sure to always be in the slow lane and driving at least 10 miles below the posted speed limit and then you can achieve the EPA range!

I have never had range anxiety and never have run out of charge. No worries exist.

This car is above par with any gas car. Can't plug in a gas car at home. Love my SR+
 
  • Like
Reactions: hcdavis3
I thought that the % figure and miles were just a simple linear relationship from a multiplication. Is that different across models?
No idea about other models but a Model 3 will always charge to 100% even if you lost 90 miles of rated range.
They are measuring two different things.
The rated miles figure on the display is measuring the amount of energy the battery currently has, and then converting that by the fixed watt hours per mile EPA efficiency constant.

But the % is just a fullness measurement. When it is holding all it can hold, it will always say 100%, regardless of how much or how little energy that is. So over time, as the battery ages and loses capacity, you will be able to see that decreased amount of energy storage capability in the amount of rated miles being less. But the "fullness" measure will always show 0% to 100%.
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: jjrandorin
But the % is just a fullness measurement.

So that one is easy enough. Just like gas tank gauge.

They are measuring two different things.

So what is percentage reading based on? Is it based on a measurement? Of cell voltage? 4.2v or 4.1v = full / 100%, ? v = empty / 0% (+buffer).

measuring the amount of energy the battery currently has,

So is this energy measurement taken during battery discharge? So measures energy released during discharge, then uses EPA rating to predict mile range.

If so, that makes sense.